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Meeting record: 2007-12-18 SWD telecon

From: Sean Bechhofer <sean.bechhofer@manchester.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 13:35:35 +0000
Message-Id: <CAB44397-D95E-4696-B790-B22F63BB8A30@manchester.ac.uk>
To: SWD Working SWD <public-swd-wg@w3.org>


The record [1] of this week's SWD WG telecon is ready for review. A  
text copy follows below.

Cheers,

	Sean

[1] http://www.w3.org/2007/12/18-swd-minutes.html

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
------------

    [1]W3C

       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                 SWD WG

18 Dec 2007

    [2]Agenda

       [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Dec/ 
0097.html

    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2007/12/18-swd-irc

Attendees

    Present
           Quentin, Clay, Tom, Alistair, Ed, Ralph, Sean, Justin,
           Margherita, Daniel, Diego, Jon

    Regrets
           Guus, Vit, Simone, Elisa

    Chair
           Tom

    Scribe
           Sean

Contents

      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]ADMIN
          2. [6]SKOS
          3. [7]RDFa
          4. [8]Recipes
          5. [9]Vocabulary Management
      * [10]Summary of Action Items
      _________________________________________________________



ADMIN

    Proposed to accept minutes:
    [11]http://www.w3.org/2007/12/11-swd-minutes.html

      [11] http://www.w3.org/2007/12/11-swd-minutes.html

    Resolved

    Next telecon: 8th January 2008

SKOS

    Alistair: Hoping to have version of SKOS Reference Editor's Draft
    for review by end of the week
    ... first draft of sections on Conceptual Resoruces, Concept Schemes
    ... Lexical Lables, Documentation properties, semantic relationsips
    ... still to do a couple of sections.
    ... ideally first draft by end of the week. Need to hook up with
    Sean over
    ... content and rules of thumb.

    ACTION: Quentin to review Editor's draft of SKOS Reference [recorded
    in [12]http://www.w3.org/2007/11/20-swd-minutes.html#action02]
    [CONTINUES]

      [12] http://www.w3.org/2007/11/20-swd-minutes.html#action02

    ACTION: Vit to review Editor's draft of SKOS Reference [recorded in
[   ][13]http://www.w3.org/2007/11/20-swd-minutes.html#action03]
    [CONTINUES] [recorded in
    [14]http://www.w3.org/2007/12/18-swd-minutes.html#action02]

      [13] http://www.w3.org/2007/11/20-swd-minutes.html#action03

    SKOS Primer

    ACTION: Alistair and Guus write draft section in primer on
    relationship between SKOS concepts and OWL classes for OWL DL users
    [recorded in
    [15]http://www.w3.org/2007/11/06-swd-minutes.html#action05]
    [CONTINUES]

      [15] http://www.w3.org/2007/11/06-swd-minutes.html#action05

    Alistair: Antoine has volunteered to write something for the primer.
    Alistair has
    ... said yes please, go ahead and we can decide where it goes later.

    Ed: Haven't had a lot of time to dedicate to it. Antoine has been
    making
    ... progress. Posting links on wiki as the document unfolds.

    <ed> [16]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/SKOS/DraftPrimer

      [16] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/SKOS/DraftPrimer

    Tom: Fine to use the wiki for drafting docs.
    ... Projected goal for draft?

    Ed: Goal was to have a fair amount for today. Realistically required
    stable Reference
    ... Antoine and Ed will hopefully knock out simple stuff this week.

    Alistair: Reference as it is (in w3 space) is not an editors draft
    yet, so could
    ... potentially change. Please look as early as possible at the
    content.
    ... Shout asap if anything doesn't make sense or looks wrong or
    needs addresssing.

    Ed: Thinking about updating core guide to reflect latest stuff
    rather than recreating new text.
    ... just change what needs to be changed

    Tom: Draft is in w3 space?

    Alistair: Drafting reference as HTML document within SWD CVS space.

    <aliman>
    [17]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/SKOS/reference/master.html ->
    reference master

      [17] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/SKOS/reference/master.html

    Alistair: this is file that's being edited live. Will create copy
    with datestamped URI
    ... once the draft is ready. Treat this URI as volatile.

    Tom: Can we update deliverables page with links?

    Alistair: Not sure about that -- this is pre editors draft stage.

    Ralph: What are your concerns?

    Alistair: None specific, but general unease

    Ralph: If the status is accurate, then it's fine.

    Alistair: Ok, says it has no status

    Ed: Got the feeling that Antoine would like to do the same with
    Primer

    Tom: Suggest that we keep editing the wiki page called deliverables.
    Add link to the
    ... latest one. Then WG participants can pick up the latest
    versions.

    <Ralph> [18]SWD Deliverables Wiki

      [18] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/Deliverables

    ISSUE 39

    ACTION: Antoine to send a msg proposing a resolution for next week
    telecon on ISSUE-39 considering Alistair's 3 subtopics [recorded in
    [19]http://www.w3.org/2007/12/11-swd-minutes.html#action07] [DONE]

      [19] http://www.w3.org/2007/12/11-swd-minutes.html#action07

    Tom: To decide on this call.

    Ralph: Link in minutes refers to specific version (5). Is this
    right?

    Tom: yes.
    ... Any comments?

    <Ralph> [20]A revised proposal for ISSUE-39 ConceptualMappingLinks
    [CORRECTION] [Antoine 16-Dec]

      [20] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Dec/ 
0083.html

    Alistair: Bit behind. Would be happy accepting the resolution.
    ... will only get to grips when writing Reference.

    <ed> aliman++

    Tom: Happy to move forward if we feel this reflects our
    understanding of the problem.
    ... accept this as a resolution to ISSUE-39 and come back if
    necessary.

    Alistair: whether or not we take this as a resolution I will take
    the content as is and try and work
    ... it into the Reference. If we formally resolve, would be happy to
    revisit.

    Tom: Propose that we resolve not to formally accept this as a
    solution, but
    ... resolve that Alistair will write this up in SKOS Reference and
    we will revisit this after that.

    Alistair: Would it be helpful to us to accept the resolution. Issue
    as it stands is broad "we want conceptual mapping links".
    ... Later issues will be more specific. May help to resolve the
    broader issue.

    Tom: Like this. Pushed grouping into context and takes a stand on
    related/overlapping.
    ... Stake in the ground.
    ... Would be happy to accept a resolution closing this. But want
    more
    ... support for this from the WG!

    Ed: I like the sound of closing the issue.

    Ralph: No strong opinion either way. Unclear on sub issues.
    ... Is the expectation that we open a new issue on grouping?

    Tom: Good question. To what extent do issues #40 and #45 discuss the
    grouping constructs

    Alistair: If we have a mechanism for "co-ordinating" concepts, that
    would satisfy some requirements.
    ... There is some overlap between #40 and grouping constructs. Could
    use a co-ordination instead of AND.
    ... Not sure about #45 . Not sure how to model it. Not entirely at
    the conceptual level.
    ... It's related, but not sure how overlapping it is. May need to
    raise another issue. Bit vague....

    Ralph: Happy with closing #39 if it's internal and we'll re-raise
    grouping if appropriate.

    Alistair: Original SKOS mapping vocab had AND/OR/NOT. Starting point
    for recent discussions. Came from
    ... some practice. There is precedent for doing AND/OR like
    combinations when mapping.

    Tom: In the old mapping vocab. Issue was is mapping sufficient.
    Could it be simplified.
    ... do we have a requirement for this?

    Marghe: Sent an email to the list to show how grouping relationship
    has been used.
    ... realised they used them more that inexact match. But if we use
    the grouping, then the mapping is only one way
    ... which limits the mapping to be one way. Bidirectional mapping
    much more useful.
    ... Discarding them gives less precision, but provides much more
    useful mappings.

    Tom: Propose that we resolve to accept this but take action to
    clarify whether the grouping constructs
    ... issues are being addressed adequately. Would make sense to close
    this and open more specific.

    Alistair: Difficult piece of work. What do you mean when you create
    mappings?
    ... How do you process those mappings when doing IR across different
    indexes? Could translate query
    ... or translate metadata. Depends on your operational theory of
    what the query means.

    Alistair: Directionality becomes important

    <Ralph> The message I believe Margherita was citing: [21]RE: SKOS
    ISSUE-39: clarification? [Margherita, 11-Dec]

      [21] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Dec/ 
0056.html

    Tom: Should close #39 and do some triage
    ... decide whether it makes sense for these constructs to be in
    scope.
    ... Could distract us and make work more compicated.
    ... Can someone take an action and decide whether it's in scope.
    ... Alistair, Tom, Ed in favour

    <Ralph> [22]Antoine's proposal

      [22] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Dec/ 
0083.html

    RESOLUTION: Accept Antoine's proposal
    [23]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Dec/0083.h
    tml as a resolution to ISSUE-39.

      [23] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Dec/ 
0083.html

    <aliman>
    [24]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Dec/0025.h
    tml -> alistair's mail on grouping constructs

      [24] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Dec/ 
0025.html

    Alistair: Wrote mail about grouping constructs
    ... started out in SKOS mapping with AND, OR and NOT. Only way to
    give an operational meaning is
    ... to treat them as query expressions. Then not mapping between
    concepts but query expressions.
    ... So first need a notion of a query. Query is out of scope for
    SKOS. So position I took was to
    ... see AND, OR and NOT as being out of scope.
    ... happy to take an action to state problem at higher level. Would
    also like Margherita to continue
    ... her work in this area.

    Tom: Position makes sense. Question is whether the primer needs to
    address the issue. Legacy vocab
    ... with these constructs. If they're not in the CR, do we need a
    comment or footnote in the Primer? Good to
    ... have a position on what to do about the issue.
    ... Drop without comment, or say something?

    Ralph: Alistair's mail addresses these issues well.

    Tom: But do we need to address this in documents.

    Ralph: Would be appropriate to go through all the differences
    between legacy and LC docs.

    Tom: Good to capture the analysis that Alistair's done.

    Ralph: What is the extent of things that will be different?
    ... advantage of mail archive is that emails can be cited.
    ... Recast question: how do we remember this email message?

    ACTION: Ralph to add pointer to Alistair's mail on grouping
    constructs as a note to resolution of ISSUE-39. [recorded in
    [25]http://www.w3.org/2007/12/18-swd-minutes.html#action05]

    ACTION: Alistair to propose an approach to clarify which aspects of
    the extension module should be in scope for the candidate
    recommendation package. [recorded in
    [26]http://www.w3.org/2007/12/11-swd-minutes.html#action06]
    [CONTINUES]

      [26] http://www.w3.org/2007/12/11-swd-minutes.html#action06

    Tom: Running out of time. Propose we declare Antoine's action as
    done, and put ISSUE-36 on the call for Jan 8th.

    ACTION: Antoine to send a mail to the list so as to have a
    discussion on ISSUE-36 and isDefinedBy for next week's telecon
    [recorded in
    [27]http://www.w3.org/2007/12/11-swd-minutes.html#action09] [DONE]

      [27] http://www.w3.org/2007/12/11-swd-minutes.html#action09

    RESOLUTION: ISSUE-36 on the call for Jan 8th

    ACTION: Alistair and Guus to prepare material for next week on
    Concept Schemes vs OWL Ontologies [recorded in
    [28]http://www.w3.org/2007/10/30-swd-minutes.html#action04]
    [CONTINUES]

      [28] http://www.w3.org/2007/10/30-swd-minutes.html#action04

    ACTION: Ralph to reconstruct proposal for semantics of isDefinedBy
    [recorded in
    [29]http://www.w3.org/2007/10/30-swd-minutes.html#action02]
    [DROPPED]

      [29] http://www.w3.org/2007/10/30-swd-minutes.html#action02

    ACTION: Ralph to check whether the common interpretation of
    rdfs:isDefinedBy fits the reasoning that was made in
    [30]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Oct/0141.h
    tml [recorded in
    [31]http://www.w3.org/2007/12/18-swd-minutes.html#action10]

      [30] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Oct/ 
0141.html

    ACTION: Guus to write up the issue [of Label Resource] and add to
    the issue list. [recorded in
    [32]http://www.w3.org/2007/10/09-swd-minutes.html#action01]
    [CONTINUES]

      [32] http://www.w3.org/2007/10/09-swd-minutes.html#action01

RDFa

    Ed: Haven't seen an updated version

    Ralph: No, there's not.
    ... can't remember the date promised

    Ed: Lots of discussion about test cases

    Tom: Aim at having reviews of syntax document posted to list by Jan
    4th?

    Ralph: But no editors draft to review.

    <Ralph> [33]2007-12-13 RDFa telecon minutes (not yet cleaned)

      [33] http://www.w3.org/2007/12/13-rdfa-minutes

    Tom: Ideal schedule was to decide on LC on Jan 8th. If Diego and Ed
    are to review, post reviews by Jan 4th
    ... then we take decision on Tuesday

    ACTION: Diego to review RDFa syntax document by early January
    [recorded in
    [34]http://www.w3.org/2007/12/18-swd-minutes.html#action12]

    ACTION: Ed to review RDFa syntax document by early January [recorded
    in [35]http://www.w3.org/2007/12/18-swd-minutes.html#action13]

    ACTION: Ben and Michael to address comments by Tom [regarding
    maintenance of wiki document
    [36]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFa] recorded in
    [37]http://www.w3.org/2007/10/08-swd-minutes.html#action05]
    [CONTINUES]

      [36] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFa
      [37] http://www.w3.org/2007/10/08-swd-minutes.html#action05

    ACTION: Ben to prepare draft implementation report for RDFa (with
    assistance from Michael) [recorded in
    [38]http://www.w3.org/2007/10/08-swd-minutes.html#action03]
    [CONTINUES]

      [38] http://www.w3.org/2007/10/08-swd-minutes.html#action03

    ACTION: Ben to update RDFa schedule in wiki
    [39]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFa#RDFa_schedule recorded
    in [40]http://www.w3.org/2007/10/08-swd-minutes.html#action04]
    [CONTINUES]

      [39] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFa#RDFa_schedule
      [40] http://www.w3.org/2007/10/08-swd-minutes.html#action04

Recipes

    Tom: No change to approve publication

    Ed: Good as no time to review.

    ACTION: Ralph and Ed to review recipes document [recorded in
    [41]http://www.w3.org/2007/12/11-swd-minutes.html#action18]
    [CONTINUES]

      [41] http://www.w3.org/2007/12/11-swd-minutes.html#action18

    ACTION: Dan to ask apache about conditional redirects [recorded in
    [42]http://www.w3.org/2007/10/09-swd-minutes.html#action07]
    [CONTINUES]

      [42] http://www.w3.org/2007/10/09-swd-minutes.html#action07

    ACTION: Ralph propose resolution to ISSUE-16 "Default behavior"
    [recorded in
    [43]http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action14]
    [CONTINUES]

      [43] http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action14

    ACTION: Ralph to come up with a URI for wiki page [for Recipes
    implementations] [recorded in
    [44]http://www.w3.org/2007/10/09-swd-minutes.html#action04] [DONE]

      [44] http://www.w3.org/2007/10/09-swd-minutes.html#action04

    ->
    [45]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Dec/0057.h
    tml

      [45] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Dec/ 
0057.html

    Jon: Editors should include language in Ralph's proposal

    ACTION: Ralph/Diego to work on Wordnet implementation [of Recipes
    implementations] [recorded in
    [46]http://www.w3.org/2007/10/09-swd-minutes.html#action03]
    [CONTINUES]

      [46] http://www.w3.org/2007/10/09-swd-minutes.html#action03

Vocabulary Management

    ACTION: Vit and Elisa to include in the document all the target
    sections plus an allocation of sections to people and potentially a
    standard structure for sections [recorded in
    [47]http://www.w3.org/2007/10/08-swd-minutes.html#action07]
    [CONTINUES]

      [47] http://www.w3.org/2007/10/08-swd-minutes.html#action07

    adjourned

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: Diego to review RDFa syntax document by early January
    [recorded in
    [48]http://www.w3.org/2007/12/18-swd-minutes.html#action12]
    [NEW] ACTION: Ed to review RDFa syntax document by early January
    [recorded in
    [49]http://www.w3.org/2007/12/18-swd-minutes.html#action13]
    [NEW] ACTION: Ralph to add pointer to Alistair's mail on grouping
    constructs as a note to resolution of ISSUE-39. [recorded in
    [50]http://www.w3.org/2007/12/18-swd-minutes.html#action05]
    [NEW] ACTION: Ralph to check whether the common interpretation of
    [recorded in
    [51]http://www.w3.org/2007/12/18-swd-minutes.html#action10]

    [PENDING] ACTION: Alistair and Guus to prepare material for next
    week on Concept Schemes vs OWL Ontologies [recorded in
    [52]http://www.w3.org/2007/10/30-swd-minutes.html#action04]
    [PENDING] ACTION: Alistair and Guus write draft section in primer on
    relationship between SKOS concepts and OWL classes for OWL DL users
    [recorded in
    [53]http://www.w3.org/2007/11/06-swd-minutes.html#action05]
    [PENDING] ACTION: Alistair to propose an approach to clarify which
    aspects of the extension module should be in scope for the candidate
    recommendation package. [recorded in
    [54]http://www.w3.org/2007/12/11-swd-minutes.html#action06]
    [PENDING] ACTION: Ben and Michael to address comments by Tom
    [regarding maintenance of wiki document
    [55]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFa] recorded in
    [56]http://www.w3.org/2007/10/08-swd-minutes.html#action05]
    [PENDING] ACTION: Ben to prepare draft implementation report for
    RDFa (with assistance from Michael) [recorded in
    [57]http://www.w3.org/2007/10/08-swd-minutes.html#action03]
    [PENDING] ACTION: Ben to update RDFa schedule in wiki
    [58]http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFa#RDFa_schedule recorded
    in [59]http://www.w3.org/2007/10/08-swd-minutes.html#action04]
    [PENDING] ACTION: Dan to ask apache about conditional redirects
    [recorded in
    [60]http://www.w3.org/2007/10/09-swd-minutes.html#action07]
    [PENDING] ACTION: Guus to write up the issue [of Label Resource] and
    add to the issue list. [recorded in
    [61]http://www.w3.org/2007/10/09-swd-minutes.html#action01]
    [PENDING] ACTION: Quentin to review Editor's draft of SKOS Reference
    [recorded in
    [62]http://www.w3.org/2007/11/20-swd-minutes.html#action02]
    [PENDING] ACTION: Ralph and Ed to review recipes document [recorded
    in [63]http://www.w3.org/2007/12/11-swd-minutes.html#action18]
    [PENDING] ACTION: Ralph propose resolution to ISSUE-16 "Default
    behavior" [recorded in
    [64]http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action14]
    [PENDING] ACTION: Ralph/Diego to work on Wordnet implementation [of
    Recipes implementations] [recorded in
    [65]http://www.w3.org/2007/10/09-swd-minutes.html#action03]
    [PENDING] ACTION: Vit and Elisa to include in the document all the
    target sections plus an allocation of sections to people and
    potentially a standard structure for sections [recorded in
    [66]http://www.w3.org/2007/10/08-swd-minutes.html#action07]
    [PENDING] ACTION: Vit to review Editor's draft of SKOS Reference
    [recorded in
    [67]http://www.w3.org/2007/11/20-swd-minutes.html#action03]

      [52] http://www.w3.org/2007/10/30-swd-minutes.html#action04
      [53] http://www.w3.org/2007/11/06-swd-minutes.html#action05
      [54] http://www.w3.org/2007/12/11-swd-minutes.html#action06
      [55] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFa
      [56] http://www.w3.org/2007/10/08-swd-minutes.html#action05
      [57] http://www.w3.org/2007/10/08-swd-minutes.html#action03
      [58] http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFa#RDFa_schedule
      [59] http://www.w3.org/2007/10/08-swd-minutes.html#action04
      [60] http://www.w3.org/2007/10/09-swd-minutes.html#action07
      [61] http://www.w3.org/2007/10/09-swd-minutes.html#action01
      [62] http://www.w3.org/2007/11/20-swd-minutes.html#action02
      [63] http://www.w3.org/2007/12/11-swd-minutes.html#action18
      [64] http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action14
      [65] http://www.w3.org/2007/10/09-swd-minutes.html#action03
      [66] http://www.w3.org/2007/10/08-swd-minutes.html#action07
      [67] http://www.w3.org/2007/11/20-swd-minutes.html#action03

    [DONE] ACTION: Antoine to send a mail to the list so as to have a
    discussion on ISSUE-36 and isDefinedBy for next week's telecon
    [recorded in
    [68]http://www.w3.org/2007/12/11-swd-minutes.html#action09]
    [DONE] ACTION: Antoine to send a msg proposing a resolution for next
    week telecon on ISSUE-39 considering Alistair's 3 subtopics
    [recorded in
    [69]http://www.w3.org/2007/12/11-swd-minutes.html#action07]
    [DONE] ACTION: Ralph to come up with a URI for wiki page [for
    Recipes implementations] [recorded in
    [70]http://www.w3.org/2007/10/09-swd-minutes.html#action04]

      [68] http://www.w3.org/2007/12/11-swd-minutes.html#action09
      [69] http://www.w3.org/2007/12/11-swd-minutes.html#action07
      [70] http://www.w3.org/2007/10/09-swd-minutes.html#action04

    [DROPPED] ACTION: Ralph to reconstruct proposal for semantics of
    isDefinedBy [recorded in
    [71]http://www.w3.org/2007/10/30-swd-minutes.html#action02]

      [71] http://www.w3.org/2007/10/30-swd-minutes.html#action02

    [End of minutes]
      _________________________________________________________


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--
Sean Bechhofer
School of Computer Science
University of Manchester
sean.bechhofer@manchester.ac.uk
http://www.cs.manchester.ac.uk/people/bechhofer
Received on Thursday, 20 December 2007 13:36:59 UTC

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