- From: Miles, AJ \(Alistair\) <A.J.Miles@rl.ac.uk>
- Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 15:46:24 -0000
- To: "Antoine Isaac" <aisaac@few.vu.nl>
- Cc: <public-swd-wg@w3.org>, "Alan Ruttenberg" <alanruttenberg@gmail.com>
> OK for the example. Actually I thought you should have > seeLabelRelation in SKOS-XL because labelRelated is there. > But I missed that the labelRelated from your SKOS-XL proposal > is actually dedicated to relations between labels as reources. > Mea maxima culpa, I was too quick. > My guilt being acknowledged, I would however blame you ;-) > for having exactly the same property and class names in both > skos: and skos-xl: > namespaces. I find this really confusing, even if of course > that's perfectly legal. :) What would you call them instead? Cheers, Alistair. > > Cheers, > > Antoine > > > Hi Antoine, > > > > I didn't forget about the skos:seeLabelRelation property in > my SKOS-XL sketch [2]. There is no need to mention it. > > > > Consider the following two graphs. > > > > First graph, using SKOS (Core) only ... > > > > ex:MyConcept a skos:Concept; > > skos:prefLabel "FAO"@en; > > skos:altLabel "Food and Agriculture Organisation"@en; > > skos:seeLabelRelation ex:MyLabelRelation. > > > > ex:MyLabelRelation a skos:LabelRelation; > > skos:labelRelated "FAO"@en; > > skos:labelRelated "Food and Agriculture Organisation"@en. > > > > Second graph, using SKOS (Core) plus SKOS-XL ... > > > > ex:MyConcept a skos:Concept; > > skos-xl:prefLabel ex:LabelX; > > skos-xl:altLabel ex:LabelY; > > skos:seeLabelRelation ex:MyLabelRelation. > > > > ex:MyLabelRelation a skos:LabelRelation; > > skos-xl:labelRelated ex:LabelX; > > skos-xl:labelRelated ex:LabelY. > > > > ex:LabelX a skos-xl:Label; > > skos-xl:plainLiteralForm "FAO"@en. > > > > ex:LabelY a skos-xl:Label; > > skos-xl:plainLiteralForm "Food and Agriculture Organisation"@en. > > > > Note that the second graph entails the first. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Alistair. > > > > -- > > Alistair Miles > > Research Associate > > Science and Technology Facilities Council Rutherford Appleton > > Laboratory Harwell Science and Innovation Campus Didcot Oxfordshire > > OX11 0QX United Kingdom > > Web: http://purl.org/net/aliman > > Email: a.j.miles@rl.ac.uk > > Tel: +44 (0)1235 445440 > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Antoine Isaac [mailto:aisaac@few.vu.nl] > >> Sent: 23 November 2007 22:31 > >> To: Miles, AJ (Alistair) > >> Cc: Jon Phipps; Daniel Rubin; public-swd-wg@w3.org; Alan Ruttenberg > >> Subject: Re: SKOS-XL (was RE: SKOS/ synonym provenance > >> (ISSUE-27 AnnotationOnLabel)) > >> > >> Hi Alistair, > >> > >> Apart from the formal concerns I expressed in my previous mail, I > >> just wanted to say that I had also some technical doubts. Mainly > >> regarding the correspondence between the > "label-as-resource" pattern > >> and the "minimal label relation" > >> one: your rules do not consider the attachment of the > ex:fooRelation > >> to the considered instances of skos:Concept. > >> > >> This raises again the issue I mentioned once about the > minimal label > >> relation [4] also lacking a story. > >> What is the story for contextualizing the "reified" > >> relationship between labels? In [4] the relationship resource is > >> linked - via a seeLabelRelation property - to the concept to which > >> the labels themselves are attached. > >> I already mentioned the problem in a telecon. If I remember > >> correctly, you said that you would attach the reified > relationship to > >> each of the concepts to which the original literals are attached. > >> This can be doable, but I think it might raise some > problems one day, > >> and in any case miss sound justification. The fact that > you forgot it > >> in [2] could be a hint :-p > >> > >> Is it because the problem is not important, contrary to > what I think, > >> or is there really something? > >> [And of course this should not hide the fact that the > >> "label-as-resource" or "simple extension" lacks a story. > Here I agree > >> with you...] > >> > >> Cheers, > >> > >> Antoine > >> > >> [4] > >> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/SkosDesign/RelationshipsBet > >> weenLabels/ProposalFour > >> [5] > >> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Nov/0063.html > >> > >> > >>> Hi Jon, > >>> > >>> You just reminded me, after the amsterdam f2f I wrote up a > >>> > >> specification for an *extension module* for SKOS, which I think > >> captures your requirements: > >> > >>> [2] <http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/SkosDesign/SKOS-XL> > >>> > >>> This takes the many-to-one position [3]. > >>> > >>> My current feeling is *not* to include anything like this > >>> > >> in the main SKOS recommendation -- i.e. to limit the SKOS > >> recommendation to *only* dealing with labels as RDF plain > literals, > >> which would keep it smaller and simpler. > >> > >>> I think it would then be quite reasonable to publish > >>> > >> something like SKOS-XL as a separate, stand-alone, > extension to SKOS, > >> for advanced users. > >> > >>> The SWDWG could itself publish such an extension, or anyone > >>> > >> from the SKOS community could do so. E.g. the FAO used their own > >> extension to represent something like this. > >> > >>> If the SWDWG left it to the community, to help promote > >>> > >> discovery and > >> > >>> convergence, the SWDWG could set up a wiki page where > >>> > >> members of the > >> > >>> community could "register" their SKOS extensions ... or we > >>> > >> could even > >> > >>> use your metadata registry to do that :) > >>> > >>> Finally, note that [1] doesn't have any "story" to it -- > >>> > >> it's just bare bones. Even as an extension module, [1] > would need a > >> story to go with it. To be even considered for inclusion in SKOS > >> proper, it would need a very good story. I haven't got a > story at all > >> the moment, and I haven't heard anyone tell one yet either, so my > >> position as stated in the summary of [3] still holds. Have > you got a > >> good story? > >> > >>> Cheers, > >>> > >>> Al. > >>> > >>> [3] > >>> > >>> > >> > <http://isegserv.itd.rl.ac.uk/public/skos/2007/10/f2f/label-relations. > >> > >>> html> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Alistair Miles > >>> Research Associate > >>> Science and Technology Facilities Council Rutherford Appleton > >>> Laboratory Harwell Science and Innovation Campus Didcot > Oxfordshire > >>> OX11 0QX United Kingdom > >>> Web: http://purl.org/net/aliman > >>> Email: a.j.miles@rl.ac.uk > >>> Tel: +44 (0)1235 445440 > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: Jon Phipps [mailto:jonphipps@gmail.com] On Behalf Of > >>>> > >> Jon Phipps > >> > >>>> Sent: 20 November 2007 13:17 > >>>> To: Miles, AJ (Alistair) > >>>> Cc: Antoine Isaac; Daniel Rubin; public-swd-wg@w3.org; Alan > >>>> Ruttenberg > >>>> Subject: Re: SKOS/ synonym provenance (ISSUE-27 > AnnotationOnLabel) > >>>> > >>>> Al, > >>>> > >>>> I'd like to suggest in the light of further discussion that we > >>>> reconsider Guus's Simple Extension Proposal[1]. Perhaps > if we were > >>>> able to declare skos:prefLabel as having an > owl:equivalentProperty > >>>> relationship to the rdfs:label property of a skos > >>>> > >> prefTerm, then this > >> > >>>> would allow us to effectively join a 'term' graph to a > concept by > >>>> asserting a typed relationship without impacting the current > >>>> semantics of prefLabel. I think this might be far more > >>>> > >> effective than > >> > >>>> simply allowing a resource to be the object of a > >>>> > >> skos:label property. > >> > >>>> I believe that Antoine had drawn this pattern on a notepad > >>>> > >> at the f2f > >> > >>>> but it didn't provoke much discussion. As I recall the main > >>>> objections to Guus's proposal had to do with problems with the > >>>> overloading of 'term' and the fact that it's subject to > >>>> > >> rather broad > >> > >>>> interpretation. Perhaps rather than simply rejecting the > >>>> > >> proposal, we > >> > >>>> could see if we can't adjust the naming to be more > >>>> > >> acceptable wrt to > >> > >>>> the apparent ambiguity of the term 'term' -- > >>>> > >> prefLexicalTerm perhaps. > >> > >>>> Personally I'm far more comfortable allowing the joining > >>>> > >> of a term to > >> > >>>> a concept to both maintain and allow relationships between > >>>> > >> terms that > >> > >>>> can't be effectively expressed with the more generalizable > >>>> > >> conceptual > >> > >>>> relationships supported by skos than I am with the currently > >>>> supported solution. It seems to me that there are far too many > >>>> instances where publishing a concept using skos involves > >>>> > >> enough of a > >> > >>>> loss of useful data that it would present a barrier to > >>>> > >> acceptance of > >> > >>>> skos. > >>>> > >>>> --Jon > >>>> > >>>> [1] > >>>> > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007May/0057.html > >>>> > >>>> On Nov 20, 2007, at 7:40 AM, Miles, AJ ((Alistair)) wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > > > > > > > >
Received on Tuesday, 4 December 2007 15:46:44 UTC