- From: Pat Hayes <phayes@ihmc.us>
- Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 10:32:36 -0500
- To: Bijan Parsia <bparsia@isr.umd.edu>
- Cc: <public-sw-meaning@w3.org>
><from an offlist email:> >Pat, I've never personalized any of this, but you have toward me, >publicly, loudly, and quite viciously. Sorry, it wasn't meant to be vicious. I apologize for giving unintended offense: I was using a rhetorical style which may not be well suited to email. The point I was intending to make was that the worries (about allowing others to have hostage over your thoughts when writing an ontology) which you and Peter expressed, seem to me to embody an attitude towards the entire business of communicating on the Web which, if translated directly into an attitude towards social communication more generally, would appear as a form of paranoia concerning any kind of communication: and someone who acted by those maxims would finish up quite rapidly being completely cut off from social intercourse of any kind involving language, and would probably be happier as a Trappist monk under a vow of silence. As I say, this is what your concerns (vividly expressed in terms of totalitarianism and control) seem to lead to; and, perhaps more personally, though it was not intended to be ad hominem, the arguments and justifications you, Bijan, give in response to objections seem to betray a similar attitude, one that to me seems quite inconsistent with normal social assumptions. You have said for example that in your view, when you use a term introduced by someone else in an ontology you write, that the meaning of the term should be entirely under your control, and entirely determined by your ontology, with no reference whatever to anything said by the 'owner' of the term. I find this an extraordinary claim, and intended to make this sense of unreality vivid by drawing from it what seems to me to be the obvious conclusion: that such an attitude, applied to the entire social fabric of a Web, implies that writers of ontologies are only concerned with being right, and not with communication at all. For presumably you allow others the same leeway that you claim: so if they use these same URIs in their ontologies then their meanings need have no relation to your meanings; so we are left with a picture in which all ontologies are entirely private worlds, whose use of common URIs is merely a syntactic accident. And this is good, presumably, on this view, because any kind of presumed relationship between ontologies would render everyone's meanings hostage to others' misinterpretations: a danger - if you wish to think of it as a danger - to which of course ANY form of communication is prone; so if avoiding this danger is your primary motivating concern, then it seems to follow that you are advocating that communication of content is not the primary aim or goal of the Semantic Web. So my riposte, which gave you offense for which, to repeat, I apologize, was intended to be along the lines of a standard response one can make to someone who advocates solipsism: if you are right, then I don't exist, so please stop talking to me about it. No doubt I have this conclusion wrong, or it is not what you intended. However, as I say, to me it seems the only conclusion that is consistent with the position you advocate and the reasons you give for advocating it. I would be delighted to have the error in my reasoning explained. >And then you do so again in this message...hardly a good sign. (The >tone in the later part of the message is more reasonable.) I'd >*like* to work with you on this issue, but not at the price of this >level of abuse. > >Since you don't deign to apologize *privately* (much less publicly, >as is appropriate), I can only assume that you meant what you said, >or you don't care about the effects of what you said. Neither seems >conducive to productive work. Well, I wasn't aware that we were working together, but I hope that this explanation and public apology may make future collaboration at least possible. Pat -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- IHMC (850)434 8903 or (650)494 3973 home 40 South Alcaniz St. (850)202 4416 office Pensacola (850)202 4440 fax FL 32501 (850)291 0667 cell phayes@ihmc.us http://www.ihmc.us/users/phayes
Received on Friday, 4 June 2004 11:38:51 UTC