- From: pat hayes <phayes@ihmc.us>
- Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:31:08 -0500
- To: Larry Masinter <LMM@acm.org>
- Cc: public-sw-meaning@w3.org
>Another little suggestion for theoretical underpinnings >of URIs: I suggest abandoning any formalism where >'resources' form a set. > >Defining resources as a class rather than as >a set has several advantages. Do you mean 'proper class' as in some formal set theories? Or do you mean 'intensional class' as in some semantic theories? If the former I would strongly disagree with this idea. If the latter, I agree this is a neat idea (and RDF tries to accommodate it) but (1) it is highly controversial and(2) it does not require abandoning set theory as a mathematical device in describing the semantic foundations. >With a class, there >is no need for a well defined equality. The >"same" relation does not have to be well defined >for all pairs. That is true for either reading. However, I do not see that as particularly as an advantage, particularly for a semantic foundational theory. On the contrary, that is a potential disaster. >You get to eschew trying to have a well-defined notion >of equality amongst resources. When asked 'can >two different resources have the same URI', you can >counter that the question is ill-formed, because there >is no way, in general, to tell if two resources are >the 'same' or 'different'. Is the referent of >'the morning star' and of 'the evening star' the same? >Not defined. You chose a very bad example to make your case. The whole point of the example is that it IS well-defined: the answer is yes, they do have the same referent, viz. the planet Venus (but some people don't know that, hence the point of the example.) >Now, there is, of course, the set of all URIs, and >a (more or less) well defined equality relationship >amongst URIs. > >There are still some axioms that can be stated without >having equality. One axiom you may want is to assume >that, whatever the 'meaning' is for a URI, it doesn't >depend on time, the observer, or the state of the >observer. If you can't use equality on times and states then you have to explain what this claim is supposed to mean. >But avoid treating resources as if they formed >a set. Nobody has yet defined what this damnably silly word "resources" is supposed to mean. In the meantime, we do know quite a lot about things that form sets. It is very hard indeed to come up with an example of things that do not form a set. In fact it is provably impossible to *exhibit* such a thing: one has to resort to transfinite diagonalization arguments to conclude that there are any. As far as I know, these all depend one way or another on the ZF axiom of foundation, and it has been shown that one can get a perfectly fine set theory without assuming that axiom. So for the last decade or so, to even talk about things that do not form sets has been an act of mysticism. To abandon set theory is basically to abandon the foundations of mathematics. That doesnt seem to me to be a very promising start towards constructing a useful foundation for anything. Pat -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- IHMC (850)434 8903 or (650)494 3973 home 40 South Alcaniz St. (850)202 4416 office Pensacola (850)202 4440 fax FL 32501 (850)291 0667 cell phayes@ihmc.us http://www.ihmc.us/users/phayes
Received on Thursday, 25 September 2003 19:31:09 UTC