- From: Erik Dahlstrom <ed@opera.com>
- Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 19:05:51 +0200
- To: "public-svg-wg@w3.org" <public-svg-wg@w3.org>
Turing test:
http://www.w3.org/2010/05/24-svg-minutes.html
if robot==1:
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
SVG Working Group Teleconference
24 May 2010
See also: [2]IRC log
[2] http://www.w3.org/2010/05/24-svg-irc
Attendees
Present
Regrets
Chair
ed
Scribe
anthony
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]ACTION-2386
2. [5]ACTION-2676
* [6]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 24 May 2010
<ed> Focus for the first two days: finish SVG 1.1 F2
<ChrisL> hey guys i will be a long in a minute, just geting a taxi
there from my hotel. sorry to be late
<ed> [7]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/products/1
[7] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/products/1
<ChrisL> what room are you in (or is it signposted)?
<ChrisL> hey guys i will be a long in a minute, just geting a taxi
there from my hotel. sorry to be late
<ChrisL> what room are you in (or is it signposted)?
<ed> there's a sign outside the door, it's just to the right after
you enter
<ChrisL> thanks
<ChrisL> see you in a few
<shepazu> ChrisL: take a right out of the lobby, there's a sign on
th wall, it's the Luxemburg room
<ed> moved ACTION-2386 to SVG 2.0, after discussion with jwatt and
pdengler
<shepazu> AlexD: we're really just starting now
<shepazu> scribeNick: shepazu
<AlexD> Thanks shepazu!
ACTION-2386
ACTION-2676
<ed> [8]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2676
[8] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2676
<ed> changes here:
[9]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/svgdom.html#SVGDOMOv
erview
[9]
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/svgdom.html#SVGDOMOverview
"Fix the 1.1 second edition wording for values that are accessed
where no attribute was provided"
ed: in most cases, you get a 0 value if you get it through the DOM
... each attribute has a default value
... for example, on the svg element, width and height have a default
value of '100%'
... and that is what's returned when you access it though the SVG
DOM
... but it's not exactly clear in the spec....
... with the core DOM, getAttribute will give you 'undefined'
<pdengler> The spec states "If the attribute is not specified, the
effect is as if a value of '100%' were specified."
<ed> data:image/svg+xml,<svg
xmlns="[10]http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><script>alert(document.docume
ntElement.width.baseVal.value)</script></svg>
[10] http://www.w3.org/2000/svg
jwatt: but it's not clear what svg.width.baseVal.value should be
ed: I think it makes more sense to initialize them all to the same
value
pdengler: but it's useful to get and change that value
ChrisL: ok, it's more clear for width and height, but what about
other attributes?
... width and height are special cases
ed: filterRes is an example where it changes
... and another is textLength, where it depends on the size of the
text string
ChrisL: width and height are special so that it scales automatically
jwatt: I think if it's not defined, it should throw an exception
... we don't want users to get the wrong values
pdengler: what is the meaning of "the effect is as if"?
ChrisL: text-length allows an explicit override for text length, in
case the actual length isn't correct
... we've got specific cases where a particular default value is
defined, but where we haven't done that, we need to we need to
define them
pdengler: the SVG DOM should reflect the default value
<ChrisL> The core dom has no knowledge of the element and attribute
sematics while a specific dom does.
shepazu: I think it might confuse authors that .getAttribute and
.baseVal.value returning different values would be confusing
ChrisL: but that's why we have the SVG DOM... it adds useful
functionality for authors
ed: when you ask for a text element text-length and there wasn't one
specified in the markup, you should get the same value as the SVG
DOM function that defines the same value
<ed> getComputedTextLength
<ed> myTextElement.textLength.baseVal.value should be the same as
myTextElement.getComputedTextLength()
<ChrisL> for text length, the textLength attribute is an override
shepazu: is this the long-term change we want?
ed: yes
ChrisL: we should include the list in the issue in the spec
ed: we can say that wherever it's not defined elsewhere, these
values should be used
jwatt: if the filterRes attribute is not set, and you read the value
from filterRes attribute value from the filterRes JS property (which
will be 0), and set the value, it will disable rendering
<ed> i'm just checking the changlog, seems I did change it once, to
be fully covering all types
<ed>
[11]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/master/svgdom.html.d
iff?r1=1.17&r2=1.18&f=h
[11]
http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/master/svgdom.html.diff?r1=1.17&r2=1.18&f=h
ed: with the textLength, and you change the string, is it changed
live?
ChrisL: yes, unless the value is set explicitly in the markup
<AlexD> How is that going to work? If textLength becomes the
equivalent of getComputedTextLength then fonts need to be
instantiated, etc. Doesn't make sense to me.
<ChrisL> alex, i just said that too
(bad scribing)
<AlexD> OK, sorry.
<ChrisL> well, you couldn't hear me from there :)
<ChrisL> i was agreeing with you
<pdengler> If the attribute is not specified, the effect is as if a
value of '100%' were specified.
<jwatt> the spec says "If the attribute is not specified, the effect
is as if the author's computation exactly matched the value
calculated by the user agent"
ed: but percentages are relative to the viewport
<ed> break for lunch
<AlexD> Lucky I have the BBQ on, enjoy...
<ChrisL> problem is we want a default value that says "no scaling"
and the value is a length, so it needs to be number, and 100% is
relative to the viewport so won't work
<ChrisL> and "non" won't work either
<ChrisL> ok, lunch
<ChrisL> back from lunch
<ed> myTextElm.textContent ="mystring";
<ed> var foo = myTextElm.textLength.baseVal.value
<ed> myTextElm.textContent ="mystring updated with more text";
<ed> myTextElm.textLength.baseVal.value = foo;
<ed> what value does 'foo' have?
<jwatt> foo never changes
<jwatt> however
<jwatt> myTextElm.textLength.baseVal.value will change, then change
back
<pdengler> scibenick: pdengler
<pdengler> scribenick: pdengler
shepazu: Let's go back to use cases. When woulod I as a developer
want this.
jwatt: When is getComputedTextlength useful
ed: It's easier to use than bbox when you only want textlength as
the string, because you have to use getbbox.width instead
shepazu: Ok, which is harder: text.getComputedTextLength() or
getBbox().width
ChrisL: The textLength property has an effect on rendering (thus
changing the boundingbox)
ed: getComputedTextLength() does not look at textlLength at all
shepazu: The use case is: find out what the textLength is so I can
change soemthing else (put a box around it); change some other
element to match the tetxLength
jwatt: All of those things can be done with get bbox
shepazu: Or I want to see if it's the right length and change it
ed: When you have a textLength attribute set, it might squeeze or
stretch text
jwatt: But wouldn't that be the same as bbox?
ed: Yes, but it would not be getComputedTextLength()
shepazu: (on white board)
<AlexD> Isn't getBBox around all of the text, whilst
getComputedTextLength handling advance width only? I thought that
was the case, so fancy fonts have a longer GetBBox.width than what
getComputedtextLength returns.
<ed> right
<ed> but getComputedTextLength also depends on the font as I read
the spec
<ed> but it doesn't care about the 'textLength' attribute
<fat_tony> scribenick: fat_tony
<scribe> scribe: anthony
<pdengler> jwatt: the textength jscript property, if the textLength
is not set, then the value should return the same value as
getComputedtextLength()
<pdengler> jwatt: If it is set, then it will return what is set
<AlexD> Does that imply that textLength sets the advance width
lengths as opposed to the Bbox lengths - I hope so...
<AlexD> i.e. the stretch/contraction based on char ABC widths etc.
that only takes into account advance, not glyph extent.
Yes
Summary: Let's just postpone resolving the case where the text is
not in the document
For the case where the textLength attribute is not set the
textLength property will return the same value as the
getComputedTextLength() method
<AlexD> Resolved, move on...
and add a note saying that 'when the textLength attribute is set,
the values returned by the textLength property and by
getComputedText() method will likely be different.'
<ed> will do the changes mentioned as part of ACTION-2676
<ed> [12]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/products/1
[12] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/products/1
<ed> ACTION-2461?
<trackbot> ACTION-2461 -- Jonathan Watt to suggest some rewritten
text for these suspend methods -- due 2009-02-23 -- OPEN
<trackbot> [13]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2461
[13] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2461
<ed> moved to SVG 2.0
<ed> ACTION-2469?
<trackbot> ACTION-2469 -- Jonathan Watt to flesh out the intrinsic
sizing erratum with text backported from 1.2T -- due 2009-02-24 --
OPEN
<trackbot> [14]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2469
[14] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2469
<ed> moved to SVG 2.0
<ed> [15]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Test_Suite_1.1F2
[15] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Test_Suite_1.1F2
<ed> people doing actions on 1.1F2 and testsuite
We'll divide the testsuite work up
We need to fix the three fields in all the tests
Doug, you review from animate-dom-01-f.svg to
filters-comptran-01-b.svg
Chris, you review from filters-conv-01-f.svg to
painting-stroke-02-t.svg
JWatt, you review from painting-stroke-03-t.svg to
struct-frag-05-t.svg
I will review from struct-frag-06-t.svg to types-dom-07-f.svg
<ChrisL> Run the test. No interaction required.
<AlexD> Have to leave now, happy reviewing.
filters-conv-01-f.svg to painting-stroke-02-t.svg
need to change operatorScript to "Run the test. No interaction
required.
<ed> ok, starting on animate-elem-11-t
<ed> animate-elem-12 done
<pdengler> checked tests from filters-turb-02-f to fonts-elem-01-t
<ed> animate-elem-13 done
<ed> trackbot, end telcon
Summary of Action Items
[End of minutes]
_________________________________________________________
Minutes formatted by David Booth's [16]scribe.perl version 1.135
([17]CVS log)
$Date: 2010/05/24 16:51:20 $
_________________________________________________________
[16] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
[17] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
Scribe.perl diagnostic output
[Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20
Check for newer version at [18]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002
/scribe/
[18] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/
Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)
Succeeded: s/right now, it's got mixed definitions, I think it should a
lways be 0/in most cases, you get a 0 value if you get it through the D
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Succeeded: s/DOM/SVG DOM/
Succeeded: s/filterRez/filterRes/
Succeeded: s/text-length/textLength/
Succeeded: s/DOM/SVG DOM/
Succeeded: s/with getAttribute/from the filterRes JS property/
Succeeded: s/baseVal.baseVal/baseVal/
Succeeded: s/return the save/return the same/
WARNING: No scribe lines found matching ScribeNick pattern: <anthony> .
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Found ScribeNick: shepazu
Found ScribeNick: pdengler
Found ScribeNick: fat_tony
Found Scribe: anthony
ScribeNicks: shepazu, pdengler, fat_tony
WARNING: No "Present: ... " found!
Possibly Present: AlexD ChrisL Summary data ed ed_ fat_tony inserted jo
ined jwatt pdengler scibenick scribenick shepazu svg trackbot
You can indicate people for the Present list like this:
<dbooth> Present: dbooth jonathan mary
<dbooth> Present+ amy
Found Date: 24 May 2010
Guessing minutes URL: [19]http://www.w3.org/2010/05/24-svg-minutes.html
People with action items:
[19] http://www.w3.org/2010/05/24-svg-minutes.html
End of [20]scribe.perl diagnostic output]
[20] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
--
Erik Dahlstrom, Core Technology Developer, Opera Software
Co-Chair, W3C SVG Working Group
Personal blog: http://my.opera.com/macdev_ed
Received on Monday, 24 May 2010 17:06:45 UTC