Minutes, Brussels F2F day 1 (May 24, 2010)

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       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

                    SVG Working Group Teleconference

24 May 2010

    See also: [2]IRC log

       [2] http://www.w3.org/2010/05/24-svg-irc





      * [3]Topics
          1. [4]ACTION-2386
          2. [5]ACTION-2676
      * [6]Summary of Action Items

    <trackbot> Date: 24 May 2010

    <ed> Focus for the first two days: finish SVG 1.1 F2

    <ChrisL> hey guys i will be a long in a minute, just geting a taxi
    there from my hotel. sorry to be late

    <ed> [7]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/products/1

       [7] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/products/1

    <ChrisL> what room are you in (or is it signposted)?

    <ChrisL> hey guys i will be a long in a minute, just geting a taxi
    there from my hotel. sorry to be late

    <ChrisL> what room are you in (or is it signposted)?

    <ed> there's a sign outside the door, it's just to the right after
    you enter

    <ChrisL> thanks

    <ChrisL> see you in a few

    <shepazu> ChrisL: take a right out of the lobby, there's a sign on
    th wall, it's the Luxemburg room

    <ed> moved ACTION-2386 to SVG 2.0, after discussion with jwatt and

    <shepazu> AlexD: we're really just starting now

    <shepazu> scribeNick: shepazu

    <AlexD> Thanks shepazu!



    <ed> [8]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2676

       [8] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2676

    <ed> changes here:


    "Fix the 1.1 second edition wording for values that are accessed
    where no attribute was provided"

    ed: in most cases, you get a 0 value if you get it through the DOM
    ... each attribute has a default value
    ... for example, on the svg element, width and height have a default
    value of '100%'
    ... and that is what's returned when you access it though the SVG
    ... but it's not exactly clear in the spec....
    ... with the core DOM, getAttribute will give you 'undefined'

    <pdengler> The spec states "If the attribute is not specified, the
    effect is as if a value of '100%' were specified."

    <ed> data:image/svg+xml,<svg

      [10] http://www.w3.org/2000/svg

    jwatt: but it's not clear what svg.width.baseVal.value should be

    ed: I think it makes more sense to initialize them all to the same

    pdengler: but it's useful to get and change that value

    ChrisL: ok, it's more clear for width and height, but what about
    other attributes?
    ... width and height are special cases

    ed: filterRes is an example where it changes
    ... and another is textLength, where it depends on the size of the
    text string

    ChrisL: width and height are special so that it scales automatically

    jwatt: I think if it's not defined, it should throw an exception
    ... we don't want users to get the wrong values

    pdengler: what is the meaning of "the effect is as if"?

    ChrisL: text-length allows an explicit override for text length, in
    case the actual length isn't correct
    ... we've got specific cases where a particular default value is
    defined, but where we haven't done that, we need to we need to
    define them

    pdengler: the SVG DOM should reflect the default value

    <ChrisL> The core dom has no knowledge of the element and attribute
    sematics while a specific dom does.

    shepazu: I think it might confuse authors that .getAttribute and
    .baseVal.value returning different values would be confusing

    ChrisL: but that's why we have the SVG DOM... it adds useful
    functionality for authors

    ed: when you ask for a text element text-length and there wasn't one
    specified in the markup, you should get the same value as the SVG
    DOM function that defines the same value

    <ed> getComputedTextLength

    <ed> myTextElement.textLength.baseVal.value should be the same as

    <ChrisL> for text length, the textLength attribute is an override

    shepazu: is this the long-term change we want?

    ed: yes

    ChrisL: we should include the list in the issue in the spec

    ed: we can say that wherever it's not defined elsewhere, these
    values should be used

    jwatt: if the filterRes attribute is not set, and you read the value
    from filterRes attribute value from the filterRes JS property (which
    will be 0), and set the value, it will disable rendering

    <ed> i'm just checking the changlog, seems I did change it once, to
    be fully covering all types



    ed: with the textLength, and you change the string, is it changed

    ChrisL: yes, unless the value is set explicitly in the markup

    <AlexD> How is that going to work? If textLength becomes the
    equivalent of getComputedTextLength then fonts need to be
    instantiated, etc. Doesn't make sense to me.

    <ChrisL> alex, i just said that too

    (bad scribing)

    <AlexD> OK, sorry.

    <ChrisL> well, you couldn't hear me from there :)

    <ChrisL> i was agreeing with you

    <pdengler> If the attribute is not specified, the effect is as if a
    value of '100%' were specified.

    <jwatt> the spec says "If the attribute is not specified, the effect
    is as if the author's computation exactly matched the value
    calculated by the user agent"

    ed: but percentages are relative to the viewport

    <ed> break for lunch

    <AlexD> Lucky I have the BBQ on, enjoy...

    <ChrisL> problem is we want a default value that says "no scaling"
    and the value is a length, so it needs to be number, and 100% is
    relative to the viewport so won't work

    <ChrisL> and "non" won't work either

    <ChrisL> ok, lunch

    <ChrisL> back from lunch

    <ed> myTextElm.textContent ="mystring";

    <ed> var foo = myTextElm.textLength.baseVal.value

    <ed> myTextElm.textContent ="mystring updated with more text";

    <ed> myTextElm.textLength.baseVal.value = foo;

    <ed> what value does 'foo' have?

    <jwatt> foo never changes

    <jwatt> however

    <jwatt> myTextElm.textLength.baseVal.value will change, then change

    <pdengler> scibenick: pdengler

    <pdengler> scribenick: pdengler

    shepazu: Let's go back to use cases. When woulod I as a developer
    want this.

    jwatt: When is getComputedTextlength useful

    ed: It's easier to use than bbox when you only want textlength as
    the string, because you have to use getbbox.width instead

    shepazu: Ok, which is harder: text.getComputedTextLength() or

    ChrisL: The textLength property has an effect on rendering (thus
    changing the boundingbox)

    ed: getComputedTextLength() does not look at textlLength at all

    shepazu: The use case is: find out what the textLength is so I can
    change soemthing else (put a box around it); change some other
    element to match the tetxLength

    jwatt: All of those things can be done with get bbox

    shepazu: Or I want to see if it's the right length and change it

    ed: When you have a textLength attribute set, it might squeeze or
    stretch text

    jwatt: But wouldn't that be the same as bbox?

    ed: Yes, but it would not be getComputedTextLength()

    shepazu: (on white board)

    <AlexD> Isn't getBBox around all of the text, whilst
    getComputedTextLength handling advance width only? I thought that
    was the case, so fancy fonts have a longer GetBBox.width than what
    getComputedtextLength returns.

    <ed> right

    <ed> but getComputedTextLength also depends on the font as I read
    the spec

    <ed> but it doesn't care about the 'textLength' attribute

    <fat_tony> scribenick: fat_tony

    <scribe> scribe: anthony

    <pdengler> jwatt: the textength jscript property, if the textLength
    is not set, then the value should return the same value as

    <pdengler> jwatt: If it is set, then it will return what is set

    <AlexD> Does that imply that textLength sets the advance width
    lengths as opposed to the Bbox lengths - I hope so...

    <AlexD> i.e. the stretch/contraction based on char ABC widths etc.
    that only takes into account advance, not glyph extent.


    Summary: Let's just postpone resolving the case where the text is
    not in the document

    For the case where the textLength attribute is not set the
    textLength property will return the same value as the
    getComputedTextLength() method

    <AlexD> Resolved, move on...

    and add a note saying that 'when the textLength attribute is set,
    the values returned by the textLength property and by
    getComputedText() method will likely be different.'

    <ed> will do the changes mentioned as part of ACTION-2676

    <ed> [12]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/products/1

      [12] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/products/1

    <ed> ACTION-2461?

    <trackbot> ACTION-2461 -- Jonathan Watt to suggest some rewritten
    text for these suspend methods -- due 2009-02-23 -- OPEN

    <trackbot> [13]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2461

      [13] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2461

    <ed> moved to SVG 2.0

    <ed> ACTION-2469?

    <trackbot> ACTION-2469 -- Jonathan Watt to flesh out the intrinsic
    sizing erratum with text backported from 1.2T -- due 2009-02-24 --

    <trackbot> [14]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2469

      [14] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/actions/2469

    <ed> moved to SVG 2.0

    <ed> [15]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Test_Suite_1.1F2

      [15] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Test_Suite_1.1F2

    <ed> people doing actions on 1.1F2 and testsuite

    We'll divide the testsuite work up

    We need to fix the three fields in all the tests

    Doug, you review from animate-dom-01-f.svg to

    Chris, you review from filters-conv-01-f.svg to

    JWatt, you review from painting-stroke-03-t.svg to

    I will review from struct-frag-06-t.svg to types-dom-07-f.svg

    <ChrisL> Run the test. No interaction required.

    <AlexD> Have to leave now, happy reviewing.

    filters-conv-01-f.svg to painting-stroke-02-t.svg

    need to change operatorScript to "Run the test. No interaction

    <ed> ok, starting on animate-elem-11-t

    <ed> animate-elem-12 done

    <pdengler> checked tests from filters-turb-02-f to fonts-elem-01-t

    <ed> animate-elem-13 done

    <ed> trackbot, end telcon

Summary of Action Items

    [End of minutes]

     Minutes formatted by David Booth's [16]scribe.perl version 1.135
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     $Date: 2010/05/24 16:51:20 $

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      [17] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

    [Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135  of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20
Check for newer version at [18]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002

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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/right now, it's got mixed definitions, I think it should a
lways be 0/in most cases, you get a 0 value if you get it through the D
Succeeded: s/DOM/SVG DOM/
Succeeded: s/filterRez/filterRes/
Succeeded: s/text-length/textLength/
Succeeded: s/DOM/SVG DOM/
Succeeded: s/with getAttribute/from the filterRes JS property/
Succeeded: s/baseVal.baseVal/baseVal/
Succeeded: s/return the save/return the same/
WARNING: No scribe lines found matching ScribeNick pattern: <anthony> .
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WARNING: No "Present: ... " found!
Possibly Present: AlexD ChrisL Summary data ed ed_ fat_tony inserted jo
ined jwatt pdengler scibenick scribenick shepazu svg trackbot
You can indicate people for the Present list like this:
         <dbooth> Present: dbooth jonathan mary
         <dbooth> Present+ amy

Found Date: 24 May 2010
Guessing minutes URL: [19]http://www.w3.org/2010/05/24-svg-minutes.html
People with action items:

      [19] http://www.w3.org/2010/05/24-svg-minutes.html

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      [20] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm

Erik Dahlstrom, Core Technology Developer, Opera Software
Co-Chair, W3C SVG Working Group
Personal blog: http://my.opera.com/macdev_ed

Received on Monday, 24 May 2010 17:06:45 UTC