- From: Anthony Grasso <anthony.grasso@cisra.canon.com.au>
- Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 12:33:35 +1000
- To: www-svg@w3.org
http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-svg-minutes.html
---
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
SVG Working Group Teleconference
08 Apr 2010
[2]Agenda
[2] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Agenda#for_telcon_2010-04-08
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-svg-irc
Attendees
Present
[Microsoft], Shepazu, [IPcaller], ed, ChrisL, anthony
Regrets
Chair
SV_MEETING_CHAIR
Scribe
patrickd
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]Handling of out-of-range values in SVG DOM
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Mar/0053.ht
ml
* [6]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 08 April 2010
<ed> trackbot, start telcon
<trackbot> Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
<trackbot> Date: 08 April 2010
<scribe> scribenick:patrickd
scribekick: patrickd
<scribe> scribenick: patrickd
shepazu: Patrick asked about SVGZoom
patrickd: I got my issues resolved; the issue with firefox was a bug
... But there is an issue that was raised around SVG in XHTML
shepazu: The root most SVG element is the root most element of which
the current SVG fragment is a child
... consider SVG>XHTML>SVG
... Consider XHTML>SVG>SVG
<ChrisL> xhtml > svg1 > svg2
<ChrisL> svg1 is the rootmost
patrickd: Should SVGZoom fire on every SVG element?
<shepazu> html1 > svg1 > html2 > svg2
shepazu: Zoom should fire on the rootmost element.
<shepazu> svg1 > svg2
ChrisL: The basic thing is that the rootmost is the only thing that
fires.
<shepazu> html1 > svg1 > html2 > svg2 > svg3
ChrisL: in xhtml>svg1>sg2, svg2 starts a document fragment, but that
is wholy contained in SVG1; SVG1 should only fire
... In the case of html1> svg1> html2 > svg2 would fire for both
SVG1&2
... If they are nested, they are still separate, they both fire.
shepazu: In the case when you html2> svg1 > html2> svg2 >svg3
<ed>
[7]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/interact.html#ZoomEv
ent
[7] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/interact.html#ZoomEvent
<ChrisL> if they are nested without intervening other-ns stuff, only
the rootmost one fires
shepazu: If I did something to zoom in on svg3, it would fire on
svg2
ChrisL: right
<ed> and
[8]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/script.html#Interfac
eSVGZoomEvent
[8]
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/script.html#InterfaceSVGZoomEvent
ed: changing currentScale fires zoomEvent
shepazu: Both UA zooming and script will fire the zoomEvent
<ed>
[9]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/struct.html#__svg__S
VGSVGElement__currentScale
[9]
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/struct.html#__svg__SVGSVGElement__currentScale
shepazu: Differentiate zoom and magnify from the UA messaging
perspective
ChrisL: So even if to the user a command is noted as zoom in both
cases, the UA needs to differentiate between an SVGZoom and a
magnify
shepazu: There is a new spec coming from the web apps WG dealing
with touch,etc; around guestures (i.e. pinch). So this will be
likely sorted out there (magnify vs. zoom)
... from a UA perspective, if I were using flash, and I see flash,
and i right-click on flash, it would only zoom in the flash. It
should be the same experience for SVG.
... There is an oustanding bug in Firefox resolved as won't fix,
that says we don't want to get special zoom capability to users in
SVG documents; we think that behavior is wrong.
ed: what happens when you set currentScale on a nested svg element
is explicitly undefined in svg1.1f2
issue: Add section to SVG 2.0 specification to disambiguate zoom and
maginify as well as handle use cases of nesting and mixed content
<trackbot> Created ISSUE-2319 - Add section to SVG 2.0 specification
to disambiguate zoom and maginify as well as handle use cases of
nesting and mixed content ; please complete additional details at
[10]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2319/edit .
[10] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2319/edit
ChrisL: In the case of <foreignObject> in SVG, the HTML window would
respond as if CSS had adjusted it's dimension
shepazu: I personally think that it would zoom in; there are
potentially use cases for both
ed: A couple of items left over after previous telecons: syntax of
negative values in points;
<ed> [11]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2314
[11] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2314
ed: Should we fix this in the 1.12nd edition or move to SVG 2.0
shepazu: We should do this in SVG 2.0
patrickd: Right now, -100-100 is not allowed
ed: Right, it is not allowed
<ed>
[12]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/shapes.html#PointsB
NF
[12] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/shapes.html#PointsBNF
<ed>
[13]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/paths.html#PathData
BNF
[13] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/paths.html#PathDataBNF
patrickd: Should we fix the language in 2nd edition;
ChrisL: Is it currently allowed
<ed>
[14]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Mar/0050.html
[14] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Mar/0050.html
ed: It is currently supported by opera, webkit and ie9 support this,
but not some others
ChrisL: The BNF for path doesn't say you can leave out a whitespace,
yet all implementations support this
shepazu: This is a question of which spec to define this in; this is
the right behavior
ChrisL: Probably could adjust the existing BNF using the existing
language
shepazu: Do we want to use BNF?
ChrisL: We would ideally have a set of tools to compress and/or
expand to determine whether it is real or not and express it in a
form for brevity or readability
<scribe> ACTION: chrisl to Respond to Jeff's message on the BNF
issue, how to address it in 2.0 as well as request recommendations
on alternate forms [recorded in
[15]http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-svg-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2752 - Respond to Jeff's message on the
BNF issue, how to address it in 2.0 as well as request
recommendations on alternate forms [on Chris Lilley - due
2010-04-15].
ed: How do we resolve this going forward?
ChrisL: Allow for common behavior in both
ed: Do we want to fix this in 2nd edition or 2.0
ChrisL: Depends on how hard it is is to fix the BNF; if it is
changing it for a different grammar, let's push to 2.0
ed: Alternative is to fix it in text and give direction on combining
the two
<scribe> ACTION: ChrisL to Investigate BNF fix for path and pologyon
commonality and see if it is easier to fix 2nd edition spec or move
to 2.0 spec [recorded in
[16]http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-svg-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2753 - Investigate BNF fix for path and
pologyon commonality and see if it is easier to fix 2nd edition spec
or move to 2.0 spec [on Chris Lilley - due 2010-04-15].
ed: Should provide test for the solution for this as well
<ed> "10.2.4.5" what does it parse as?
<ed>
[17]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/paths.html#PathData
BNF
[17] http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/paths.html#PathDataBNF
ed: There was a similar issue raised for elliptical arc
<ChrisL> so we need two test for polyline then, one with missing
space 100-200 and one for concatenated decimals 0.2.3
<ed>
[18]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Apr/0006.html
[18] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Apr/0006.html
ed: We should allow for skipping of space and comma between
largeArcFlag and the sweepFlag
... Instead of ', *wsp' it should be ',wsp?'
<ed> so change elliptical-arc-argument to become this:
<ed> nonnegative-number comma-wsp? nonnegative-number comma-wsp?
<ed> number comma-wsp flag comma-wsp? flag comma-wsp coordinate-pair
<scribe> ACTION: ed to Change language in language around largeArc
and sweepArc to allow for skipping of white space and comma, write
test case, and communicate back to Jeff [recorded in
[19]http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-svg-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2754 - Change language in language around
largeArc and sweepArc to allow for skipping of white space and
comma, write test case, and communicate back to Jeff [on Erik
Dahlström - due 2010-04-15].
ed: There was a questoin about handling out of range values
Handling of out-of-range values in SVG DOM
[20]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Mar/0053.html
[20] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Mar/0053.html
<ChrisL> close ACTION-2752
<trackbot> ACTION-2752 Respond to Jeff's message on the BNF issue,
how to address it in 2.0 as well as request recommendations on
alternate forms closed
<ed>
[21]http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/coords.html#Interfa
ceSVGPreserveAspectRatio
[21]
http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/publish/coords.html#InterfaceSVGPreserveAspectRatio
<ed> [22]http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGTiny12/svgudom.html#FloatValues
(just checking if there was anything said on negative values in
1.2T)
[22] http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGTiny12/svgudom.html#FloatValues
shepazu: SHouldn't be an error
... Shouldn't halt rendering
ChrisL: Errors in SVG 1.1 are different from parsing errors in XML
... Document can go in and out of error over time
... If it's a parsing error it should halt right there
ed: Probably more correct to throw an exception; would lean towards
this, but not for a negative value, but for an out of range value,
and keep the old value
... Also for negative (which are out of range)
<scribe> ACTION: patrickd to Correct SVGPreserveAspectRatio out of
range language to reflect that the error should be raised and the
value should be preserved when an invalid value is set [recorded in
[23]http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-svg-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2755 - Correct SVGPreserveAspectRatio out
of range language to reflect that the error should be raised and the
value should be preserved when an invalid value is set [on Patrick
Dengler - due 2010-04-15].
ChrisL: Face-to-Face meeting; we will shorten this from 24th to
31st. Patrick will get a room for the Monday the 24th.
... Then folks can go to LGM in between (no conference fee)
<ed> elm.href.baseVal = "newurl"
<ed>
[24]http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/types.html#InterfaceSVGAnimatedString
[24] http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/types.html#InterfaceSVGAnimatedString
shepazu: We are thinking that we don't want to distrub setattribute
or setattributeNS
... Now we are thinking that href takes precendence over xlink:href;
there is no mirroring of the values; and that there should be a
propperty setter, href, that sets the href property and not
xlink:href
anthony: Might need a new time for conf call as winter here or there
is not necessarily winter there
shepazu: We want it either 5 hours earlier or 2 hours later
... let's move it to 5 hours earlier
... Move it 5.5 hours earlier Mon/Thurs
... This conflicts with ODF call
... Actually 5.5 hours is OK. Somone will type the UTC time
... 14:30 UTC
trackbot, end telecon
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: ChrisL to Investigate BNF fix for path and pologyon
commonality and see if it is easier to fix 2nd edition spec or move
to 2.0 spec [recorded in
[25]http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-svg-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: chrisl to Respond to Jeff's message on the BNF issue,
how to address it in 2.0 as well as request recommendations on
alternate forms [recorded in
[26]http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-svg-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: ed to Change language in language around largeArc and
sweepArc to allow for skipping of white space and comma, write test
case, and communicate back to Jeff [recorded in
[27]http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-svg-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: patrickd to Correct SVGPreserveAspectRatio out of
range language to reflect that the error should be raised and the
value should be preserved when an invalid value is set [recorded in
[28]http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-svg-minutes.html#action04]
[End of minutes]
_________________________________________________________
Minutes formatted by David Booth's [29]scribe.perl version 1.135
([30]CVS log)
$Date: 2010/04/08 21:51:06 $
_________________________________________________________
[29] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
[30] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
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[31] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/
Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)
Succeeded: s/It is not well defined what happens when SVG and XHTML are
mixed/what happens when you set currentScale on a nested svg element i
s explicitly undefined in svg1.1f2/
Succeeded: s/webkit/webkit and ie9/
Found ScribeNick: patrickd
Found ScribeNick: patrickd
Inferring Scribes: patrickd
Default Present: [Microsoft], Shepazu, [IPcaller], ed, ChrisL, anthony
Present: [Microsoft] Shepazu [IPcaller] ed ChrisL anthony
Agenda: [32]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Agenda#for_telcon_20
10-04-08
[32] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Agenda#for_telcon_2010-04-08
WARNING: No meeting chair found!
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<dbooth> Chair: dbooth
Found Date: 08 Apr 2010
Guessing minutes URL: [33]http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-svg-minutes.html
People with action items: chrisl ed patrickd
[33] http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-svg-minutes.html
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[34] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
Received on Monday, 12 April 2010 02:34:19 UTC