- From: Anthony Grasso <anthony.grasso@cisra.canon.com.au>
- Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 08:28:28 +1100
- To: www-svg@w3.org
http://www.w3.org/2009/12/10-svg-minutes.html
---
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
SVG Working Group Teleconference
10 Dec 2009
See also: [2]IRC log
[2] http://www.w3.org/2009/12/10-svg-irc
Attendees
Present
Shepazu, [IPcaller], ed, anthony
Regrets
Chair
Erik
Scribe
anthony
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]Next Telcon
2. [5]Face-to-face
3. [6]Collaboration with CSS
4. [7]DOM3 Event TransformX/Y
5. [8]SVG 1.1
* [9]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 10 December 2009
<scribe> Scribe: anthony
Next Telcon
DS: The next Telcon will be the 6th
... no wait
... Monday January 4th 2010
AG: I might not be there for that telcon
... flying back from Townsville
<scribe> ACTION: Erik to Email the SVG Working Group list informing
members when the next telcon is going to be (after the break)
[recorded in
[10]http://www.w3.org/2009/12/10-svg-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2704 - Email the SVG Working Group list
informing members when the next telcon is going to be (after the
break) [on Erik Dahlström - due 2009-12-17].
Face-to-face
DS: We do not have quorum for meeting in Sydney
... so will have to cancel that
AG: So when will the next F2F be?
... or will it still be around that time?
ED: When is Libre graphics?
<ed> [11]http://libregraphicsmeeting.org/2010/index_static.html
[11] http://libregraphicsmeeting.org/2010/index_static.html
DS: AKA LGM, is Belgium
ED: 26th to 29th May 2010
DS: If we are going to have a meeting before then
... JWatt said Feb works for him
<ed> [12]http://www.fosdem.org/2010/
[12] http://www.fosdem.org/2010/
ED: There is also Fosdem
<ed> 6-7 feb 2010
<ed> also brussels
ED: JWatt didn't want a conflict with
DS: So anytime around then works for me
... and I guess we'll be going to Europe
... if we going to have one at all
... I've been thinking about a DOM API summit
... get a bunch of people together
... for a couple of days
... and work out a good API
... get a bunch of requirements
... have people put forward proposals
... then have a discussion and hopefully come up with a model
... that can be used
... some major browser vendors have offered to host it
... Erik can you fly to the US in Jan/Feb?
... or March?
ED: March would be fine
DS: It wouldn't be exclusively SVG
... if we had it on the West coast, it might help JWatt
... This might be a fruitful alternative to an SVG F2F
AG: Have this as an alternative?
DS: Have 2 or 3 days SVG F2F and then a DOM Summit
... Might even have more days than that - 5 days depending how long
people can attend for
<scribe> ACTION: Doug to Look into details of a DOM summit/SVG
meeting [recorded in
[13]http://www.w3.org/2009/12/10-svg-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2705 - Look into details of a DOM
summit/SVG meeting [on Doug Schepers - due 2009-12-17].
DS: I guess we can't really decide right now where the next F2F will
be
Collaboration with CSS
DS: I spoke with a Designer on the CSS WG - Tab Atkins
... he's the editor on the CSS Gradients specification
<shepazu> [14]http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-images/Overview.html
[14] http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-images/Overview.html
DS: it's actually CSS Image Values
... we talked about his proposal
... there are some things that seem very funky to me
... with the syntax
... somethings you can do that you can't do with SVG gradients
... We agreed that we want the models as similar as possible
... including the syntax
... how would you guys feel about forming a task force with CSS
Working Group
... and working on some things with them
... It would part of the Paint Servers work
AG: As long as it can be extend at some point
ED: There's also text shadow as well
DS: These are some of things we should be collaborating on
... making sure they have the same syntax will be a real win for
authors
... I propose we act on it
... I asked PLH about this
... He supported the idea as long as the deliverable is in the
Charter
... a Taskforce is something the Chairs set up
... and had nothing to do with the Team
... So Erik is it possible to do this
ED: Sounds likes a good idea
DS: You will have to write to the CSS WG with a formal proposal
AG: Just looking at the CSS Gradients
... it looks like the geometry of the gradient is modified according
to the bounding box of the gradient
... well at least it can be specified to behave that way
... wouldn't be hard to do in SVG, just need another parameter
DS: They can specify a start point and an angle rather than an end
point
AG: That's also not a bad idea
DS: So there's a lot of points that we can collaborate on
... and CSS WG has designers which might be able to help us
DOM3 Event TransformX/Y
DS: We all no this problem
... if you write a drag and drop script
... as soon as you introduce transforms or a viewBox and you try to
drag it
... X/Y are offset from where the mouse pointer is
... and it is really painful
... JWatt proposed putting this into DOM 3 Events
... since CSS has proposed Transforms
... they will run into the same problems
... as we did
... I'm proposing for DOM 3 Events
... we have Tx/Ty
... Transform X and Transform Y
... and it unwinds the transformation matrix to get the actual
viewPort X and Y
... client X and client Y would be good if they had the right
algorithms behind them but they don't
AG: If we have to unwind the matrix
... we'd have to get the inverse matrix
... is that right ED?
ED: Yes, can't always get the inverse
<ed> [15]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invertible_matrix
[15] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invertible_matrix
AG: The idea has merit but there some cases where it will fail
DS: Where abouts?
ED: Scale 0
... trying to think of other cases
DS: If there are predictable cases you could specify don't do
calculations on these cases
ED: You can do a a cheap calculation to determine if you can get an
inverse
... but you may not want to do that all the time
DS: I'll show you both the script I'm working on
... and you can give me feedback over email
<scribe> ACTION: Doug to Send in details to the list on DOM 3
Transform X/Y for feedback [recorded in
[16]http://www.w3.org/2009/12/10-svg-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2706 - Send in details to the list on DOM
3 Transform X/Y for feedback [on Doug Schepers - due 2009-12-17].
<ed> [17]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Determinant
[17] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Determinant
ED: If you want the math behind it, you can calculate the
determinant
<ed> for a 3x3 matrix: det (A) = aei - afh + bfg - bdi + cdh - ceg.
ED: which will tell you if the matrix is invertable
<ed> if that's 0 it's noninvertible
ED: Are you suggesting to have properties on the Event interface?
DS: Yes, on any event that has x, y attributes, like the mouse event
interface event types
... you'd also have Tx, Ty
... that would be the value in the transformation space of the
element
... Any place we have transform it would be nice to have the
individual attributes
... Translate X, Translate Y, etc
... It would be nice to just have those individual transforms and
have a predefined order they are applied in
SVG 1.1
ED: Converting Opera internal intersection list tests
... to use the W3C template
... and reviewing the tests that Cameron wrote
... there are two or three tests on my to-do list
DS: There's a couple of actions I can do
AG: Same
<ed> [18]http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/products/1
[18] http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/products/1
ED: The Java bindings appendix is done
<scribe> ... pending review
UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: the other one I'm doing is intersection list and
clarification for that
... I might be able to take on more actions
... if people are having trouble with
... was thinking of taking ACTION-2676
<scribe> ACTION: Anthony to Send Doug the location of the tables for
the integration specification [recorded in
[19]http://www.w3.org/2009/12/10-svg-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2707 - Send Doug the location of the
tables for the integration specification [on Anthony Grasso - due
2009-12-17].
Happy Holidays everyone!
<ChrisL> sorry to miss the call gus, i had a transition call to do,
standing in for plh
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Anthony to Send Doug the location of the tables for
the integration specification [recorded in
[20]http://www.w3.org/2009/12/10-svg-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: Doug to Look into details of a DOM summit/SVG meeting
[recorded in
[21]http://www.w3.org/2009/12/10-svg-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Doug to Send in details to the list on DOM 3 Transform
X/Y for feedback [recorded in
[22]http://www.w3.org/2009/12/10-svg-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: Erik to Email the SVG Working Group list informing
members when the next telcon is going to be (after the break)
[recorded in
[23]http://www.w3.org/2009/12/10-svg-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]
_________________________________________________________
Minutes formatted by David Booth's [24]scribe.perl version 1.135
([25]CVS log)
$Date: 2009/12/10 21:25:37 $
_________________________________________________________
[24] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
[25] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
Scribe.perl diagnostic output
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[26] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/
Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)
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Found Scribe: anthony
Inferring ScribeNick: anthony
Default Present: Shepazu, [IPcaller], ed, anthony
Present: Shepazu [IPcaller] ed anthony
Found Date: 10 Dec 2009
Guessing minutes URL: [27]http://www.w3.org/2009/12/10-svg-minutes.html
People with action items: anthony doug erik
[27] http://www.w3.org/2009/12/10-svg-minutes.html
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[28] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
Received on Thursday, 10 December 2009 21:29:23 UTC