Minutes: February 23, 2016 SVG Accessibility Task Force Call

 http://www.w3.org/2016/02/23-svg-a11y-minutes.html <http://www.w3.org/2016/02/23-svg-a11y-minutes.html>


Text:

IRC log of svg-a11y on 2016-02-23

Timestamps are in UTC.

18:02:34 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #svg-a11y
18:02:34 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/02/23-svg-a11y-irc <http://www.w3.org/2016/02/23-svg-a11y-irc>
18:03:21 [fesch]
agenda https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-a11y/2016Feb/0041.html <https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-a11y/2016Feb/0041.html>
18:03:32 [fesch]
chair: fesch
18:03:41 [fesch]
regrets: Jason
18:04:41 [MarkS]
no
18:04:46 [AmeliaBR]
present+ AmeliaBR
18:05:02 [MarkS]
present+ MarkSadecki
18:05:10 [MarkS]
great
18:05:24 [MarkS]
s/great/
18:05:35 [MarkS]
s/no/
18:06:11 [shepazu]
regrets for today, I'm at a f2f meeting
18:08:36 [Rich]
present+ Rich_Schwerdtfeger
18:08:49 [Rich]
scribe: Rich
18:09:12 [Rich]
Topic: Open Actions
18:09:19 [Rich]
RRSAgent, make log public
18:09:30 [fesch]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/track/ <https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/track/>
18:10:01 [Rich]
Amelia: My open actions tie into SVG-AAM based on feedback. I have started it but I am not yet ready to share it.
18:10:30 [Rich]
Amelia: Regarding clearer documentation in SVG2 it will make it easier to address issues with focus management in SVG2
18:11:14 [Rich]
Rich: there are issues with HTMl vs. SVG2 where both don’t match
18:11:39 [Rich]
Amelia: I agree for focus management. They links and definitions are inconsistent and we can’t fix the HTML side
18:12:08 [Rich]
Amelia: I am going to make sure we have clear directions on the SVG side to ensure Focus navigation is consistent.
18:12:35 [Rich]
Amelia: what elements can be accessible with tabindex. What element are focusable, etc.
18:12:45 [Rich]
Amelia: I agree with your issue filed.
18:13:20 [Rich]
Topic: Action 2003
18:13:43 [fesch]
action-2003
18:13:43 [trackbot]
action-2003 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Investigate how role=none interacts with other aria- attributes, in other aria specs. -- due 2016-02-16 -- OPEN
18:13:43 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/track/actions/2003 <http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/track/actions/2003>
18:13:44 [Rich]
Action-2003?
18:13:44 [trackbot]
Action-2003 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Investigate how role=none interacts with other aria- attributes, in other aria specs. -- due 2016-02-16 -- OPEN
18:13:44 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/track/actions/2003 <http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/track/actions/2003>
18:14:50 [Rich]
Amelia: if something has role=“none” and they have an aria-label that they not put in the a11y tree. Rich to check with ARIA 1.1
18:16:28 [Rich]
Topic: Action 2010
18:16:34 [Rich]
Action-2010?
18:16:34 [trackbot]
Action-2010 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Update svg-aam and svg 2 to include the new roles from the aria graphics module -- due 2016-02-16 -- OPEN
18:16:34 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/track/actions/2010 <http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/track/actions/2010>
18:17:39 [fesch]
action-1004
18:17:39 [trackbot]
Sorry, but action-1004 does not exist.
18:17:48 [fesch]
issue-1004
18:17:48 [trackbot]
issue-1004 -- The Use element should default to graphics-symbol and also graphics symbol should subclass graphic -- open
18:17:48 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/track/issues/1004 <http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/track/issues/1004>
18:18:39 [Rich]
RESOLUTION: Close Action 2010 and issue 1004
18:18:43 [Rich]
completed
18:18:53 [Rich]
Topic: Action 2011
18:18:55 [fesch]
action-2011
18:18:55 [trackbot]
action-2011 -- Fred Esch to Review svg 2 section on multi-lingual title/desc & identify any under-specified conditions or edge cases -- due 2016-02-16 -- OPEN
18:18:55 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/track/actions/2011 <http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/track/actions/2011>
18:19:35 [Rich]
Fred: One of the things taht we found was an empty title
18:20:02 [Rich]
Fred: with an empty tooltip or a white spaced tooltip none show a tooltip
18:20:38 [Rich]
Amelia: Rich and I udpated them on the call and there is nothing in the spec. about it. They are deferring to us in accessibility matters
18:20:56 [Rich]
Fred: We would put it in the accessibility tree if they showed a tooltip
18:22:18 [Rich]
Rich: I spoke with the core mapping team and they agreed that if they put in an empty title and then we do nothing special in the name computation.
18:22:33 [Rich]
Fred: what about whether we keep the element in the tree?
18:22:39 [Rich]
Rich: we keep it as we have it
18:22:52 [Rich]
Amelia: we put these issues in authoring tools to warn the author
18:23:40 [Rich]
RESOLUTION: If an empty title or a title with all whitespace is used then the element is put in the accessibility tree for elements that are considered renderable.
18:25:43 [Rich]
Amelia: we assume the attribute exists aria-label=“” then it is consistent. However, aria-labelledby must point to a a valid id.
18:26:11 [Rich]
Amelia: the <desc> element must be treated the same way
18:26:47 [Rich]
Amelia: we might want to up this to a normative rule for authors.
18:28:07 [Rich]
Action: Amelia: modify the SVG2 spec. to require authors when useing <title> or <desc> to not leave them empty or with only white space. An author MUST
18:28:08 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2015 - Modify the svg2 spec. to require authors when useing <title> or <desc> to not leave them empty or with only white space. an author must [on Amelia Bellamy-Royds - due 2016-03-01].
18:28:44 [Rich]
RESOLUTION: <desc> must follow the same rules for <title> regarding empty or whitespace only strings
18:29:11 [Rich]
Topic: Action 2012
18:29:21 [MarkS]
action-2012
18:29:21 [trackbot]
action-2012 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Change mesh in aam to map to image -- due 2016-02-23 -- OPEN
18:29:21 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/track/actions/2012 <http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/track/actions/2012>
18:30:02 [Rich]
https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/struct.html#implicit-aria-semantics <https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/struct.html#implicit-aria-semantics>
18:31:08 [Rich]
Rich: for mesh: none role provided no associated ‘title’ element, ‘desc’ element, ‘aria-label’ attribute, ‘aria-labelledby’ attribute, ‘aria-describedby’ attribute; or ‘tabindex’ attribute; otherwise, img role
18:32:17 [Rich]
RESOLUTION: close Action 2012
18:32:28 [Rich]
close action-2012
18:32:28 [trackbot]
Closed action-2012.
18:32:30 [AmeliaBR]
Relevant text from SVG 2 "Unlike other paint servers, a mesh defined outside of a ‘defs’ section is rendered. In this the case, the mesh has a bounding box determined by its maximum extent, taking into account all of its patches."
18:32:48 [Rich]
Topic: Action 2013
18:32:50 [fesch]
action-2013
18:32:50 [trackbot]
action-2013 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Update allowed roles in svg-aam & svg 2 to include new graphics module roles -- due 2016-02-23 -- OPEN
18:32:50 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/track/actions/2013 <http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/track/actions/2013>
18:33:22 [fesch]
close action-2013
18:33:22 [trackbot]
Closed action-2013.
18:33:26 [Rich]
RESOLUTION: Close Action 2013 as completed
18:33:52 [Rich]
Topic: Action 2009
18:34:04 [MarkS]
action-2009
18:34:04 [trackbot]
action-2009 -- Fred Esch to Create testable statements with multiple title/desc elements -- due 2016-02-09 -- PENDINGREVIEW
18:34:04 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/track/actions/2009 <http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/track/actions/2009>
18:34:54 [Rich]
Topic: Meeting Time
18:34:56 [fesch]
http://doodle.com/poll/zxmyzm728qr4chatnnhunhch/admin#table <http://doodle.com/poll/zxmyzm728qr4chatnnhunhch/admin#table>
18:36:54 [Rich]
RESOLUTION: Move meeting times to 2PM EST
18:37:49 [Rich]
Topic: Text with multiple elements
18:38:15 [Rich]
Topic: Tests with multiple elements
18:38:29 [fesch]
https://www.w3.org/wiki/SVG_Accessibility/Testing/Test_Assertions <https://www.w3.org/wiki/SVG_Accessibility/Testing/Test_Assertions>
18:38:45 [Rich]
Fred: There are a few test assertions that are purposeful
18:39:07 [Rich]
Fred: If you look where teh test element is the second element
18:39:18 [fesch]
test element is second element
18:39:49 [Rich]
Fred: that is one
18:40:07 [Rich]
Fred: how many tests do we need to do before we know it is OK?
18:41:04 [Rich]
Amelia: We can’t test everything but we have to test the main branches of a decision tree to make sure we have a decision for that
18:41:20 [fesch]
https://www.w3.org/wiki/SVG_Accessibility/Testing/Test_Assertions/Language <https://www.w3.org/wiki/SVG_Accessibility/Testing/Test_Assertions/Language>
18:41:24 [Rich]
Fred: on the other pages we have the language test
18:41:34 [Rich]
Fred: they have lots of things like multiple titles
18:41:53 [Rich]
fred: They have groups around multiple things that are being tested to have a non-english example
18:42:16 [Rich]
Fred: are we ok with that? If we want more can we just put that in?
18:42:40 [Rich]
Amelia: Where specific edge case are needed we do that.
18:42:54 [Rich]
Amelia: I need to read through what you have
18:43:27 [Rich]
Fred: Charles said when you annotate things with an accessible name and it just stops
18:44:24 [Rich]
Amelia: We need to make sure we have 3 elements in the spec. then we do that.
18:45:57 [AmeliaBR]
s/3 elements in the spec/multiple elements in the test/
18:46:11 [Rich]
Rich: we could have a 2 page test with all the the element to test if in or outside the tree
18:46:53 [Rich]
Fred: we need a unique id for the test in the page. so, each one has to be on separate pages
18:47:18 [Rich]
Topic: SVG Spec. Ambiguous issues
18:47:42 [Rich]
Amelia: we have discussed all of these but we do not have resolutions for all of these
18:48:04 [Rich]
Amelia: We briefed the SVG2 working group and they left it up to us to deal with a11y issues
18:48:55 [Rich]
Topic: Graphics-AAM
18:49:43 [Rich]
Amelia: I gave it a quick overview but I am not an expert.
18:50:41 [Rich]
Rich: I gave the graphics spec. to James Craig at Apple and Joanie Diggs at Igalia and they will come back with Mac and Linux mappings
18:51:05 [Rich]
Topic: Inline in SVG and W3C documents
18:52:10 [Rich]
Fred: If you have an SVG document and the first element is <g> and it has an aria-label of “bob” it just says bob.
18:53:16 [Rich]
Rich: where was that tested?
18:53:33 [Rich]
Amelia: we shoudl be giving advice for maximum reasonable accessibility
18:54:08 [Rich]
s/shouldl/should/
18:56:13 [Rich]
Fred: I have a pearl script that has an SVG document and an HTML file that makes the SVG document in line
18:56:26 [AmeliaBR]
s/pearl/perl/
18:57:46 [Rich]
Rich: every platform has a different set of APIs
18:58:56 [Rich]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testcases?testsuite_id=4 <https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testcases?testsuite_id=4>
18:59:10 [Rich]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testcases/edit?testsuite_id=4&testcase_id=76 <https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testcases/edit?testsuite_id=4&testcase_id=76>
19:04:14 [Rich]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testcases/edit?testsuite_id=1&testcase_id=80 <https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testcases/edit?testsuite_id=1&testcase_id=80>
19:09:35 [Rich]
chair: Fred
19:09:42 [Rich]
RRSAgent, make minutes
19:09:42 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/02/23-svg-a11y-minutes.html <http://www.w3.org/2016/02/23-svg-a11y-minutes.html> Rich
Rich Schwerdtfeger