Re: SVG AAM

The <iframe> in SVG is a new feature in SVG 2.  As far as I know, it is not
supported in any browsers yet.

Thanks for all the edits Richard.  I'll try to find time to review them by
Friday, and then hopefully we can make a resolution to publish during the
telcon.

ABR

On 28 September 2015 at 14:11, Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com>
wrote:

> There should not be a restriction on using an IFrame in SVG. It sounds
> like a paste problem with the IBM Wiki. Did you look at the DOM after you
> pasted it in with Firebug?
>
> Rich
>
>
> Rich Schwerdtfeger
>
> [image: Inactive hide details for Fred Esch---09/28/2015 01:03:16
> PM---Rich, I like the revised text.]Fred Esch---09/28/2015 01:03:16
> PM---Rich, I like the revised text.
>
> From: Fred Esch/Arlington/IBM
> To: Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS
> Cc: public-svg-a11y@w3.org
> Date: 09/28/2015 01:03 PM
> Subject: Re: SVG AAM
> ------------------------------
>
>
> Rich,
>
> I like the revised text.
>
> Isn't there any restrictions on iframe use in an SVG? What I was doing was
> calling a Brunel interactive chart in the iframe. The iframe snippet comes
> from Brunel, and if you paste the iframe snippet in an HTML page you get an
> interactive chart on you web page. Pasting the iframe snippet in IBM wiki's
> works too, but the iframe snippet does not in W3C wikis.
>
> Is it OK to use iframes in SVG in this way? It seems allowable, but since
> I didn't see the Brunel chart render in the SVG and d3 threw an error I
> assume that it would not be easy to make charts in iframes in SVG work
> well.
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Fred Esch
> Accessibility Focal, Watson Solutions
> AARB Complex Visualization Working Group Chair
> W3C SVG Accessibility Task Force
> [image: IBM Watson]
>
>    [image: Fred]
>
>
>
>
> [image: Inactive hide details for Richard Schwerdtfeger---09/28/2015
> 12:47:37 PM---Hi Fred, IFrames are treated seemlessly in browsers]Richard
> Schwerdtfeger---09/28/2015 12:47:37 PM---Hi Fred, IFrames are treated
> seemlessly in browsers today. Giving them an object
>
> From: Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS
> To: Fred Esch/Arlington/IBM@IBMUS
> Cc: public-svg-a11y@w3.org
> Date: 09/28/2015 12:47 PM
> Subject: Re: SVG AAM
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> Hi Fred,
>
> IFrames are treated seemlessly in browsers today. Giving them an object
> would be bad by default. IFrames in web pages today are more used in
> mashups to isolate script more than they are for treating entirely
> different content. When you tab into an IFrame it becomes part of the
> seemless keyboard navigation order from its container.
>
> I see your point on IFrame on the following. That is the exception rather
> than the rule. Although IFrame is in SVG it really comes from HTML.
>
> How about the following as replacement text:
>
> With the exception of an IFrame, user agents *MUST NOT* include any
> elements, or their descendant content, as an *accessible object*
> <http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/svg-aam/svg-aam.html#dfn-accessible-object> in
> the *accessibility tree*
> <http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/svg-aam/svg-aam.html#dfn-accessibility-tree> that
> are indicated as no *accessible object*
> <http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/svg-aam/svg-aam.html#dfn-accessible-object> created
> in the *SVG Element Mapping Table*
> <http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/svg-aam/svg-aam.html#mapping_role_table>.
> User agents *SHOULD* also exclude any element defined by a future SVG
> specification or module which specifically indicates that the element is
> never directly rendered.
>
> In the case of an IFrame, user agents *MUST NOT* include an *accessible
> object*
> <http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/svg-aam/svg-aam.html#dfn-accessible-object> in
> the *accessibility tree*
> <http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/svg-aam/svg-aam.html#dfn-accessibility-tree> unless
> a role of application, document, or img is applied to the IFrame.
>
> Rich
>
>
> Rich Schwerdtfeger
>
> [image: Inactive hide details for Fred Esch---09/28/2015 09:49:38
> AM---Rich, All geometric primitives (circles, ellipse, line..) have a]Fred
> Esch---09/28/2015 09:49:38 AM---Rich, All geometric primitives (circles,
> ellipse, line..) have a note about switching from the img r
>
> From: Fred Esch/Arlington/IBM
> To: Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS
> Cc: public-svg-a11y@w3.org
> Date: 09/28/2015 09:49 AM
> Subject: Re: SVG AAM
> ------------------------------
>
>
> Rich,
>
>
> All geometric primitives (circles, ellipse, line..) have a note about
> switching from the img role to a graphics-symbol role. However, if* the
> definition of graphics-symbol *
> <http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/graphics.html#graphics-symbol>is
> that is represents something but does not necessarily physically look like
> what it represents, then graphics-symbol wouldn't be a better role for the
> primitives.
>
> Why are iframes treated differently than canvas, foreignObject, groups or
> images? I don't understand why iframes don't produce an accessible object,
> but can have a role of application, document or img? Furthermore, *5.1.1
> Excluding Elements from the Accessibility Tree*
> <http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/svg-aam/svg-aam.html#exclude_elements> second
> paragraph -
>
> User agents *MUST NOT* include any elements, or their descendant content,
> as an *accessible object*
> <http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/svg-aam/svg-aam.html#dfn-accessible-object> in
> the *accessibility tree*
> <http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/svg-aam/svg-aam.html#dfn-accessibility-tree> that
> are indicated as no *accessible object*
> <http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/svg-aam/svg-aam.html#dfn-accessible-object>
>  created in the *SVG Element Mapping Table*
> <http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/svg-aam/svg-aam.html#mapping_role_table>.
> User agents *SHOULD* also exclude any element defined by a future SVG
> specification or module which specifically indicates that the element is
> never directly rendered.
>
> So an iframe not producing an accessible object and 5.1.1 indicates
> nothing in the iframe will get in the accessibility tree.
>
>
> Are there limitations on using iframes inside an SVG?  I tried to include
> a Brunel chart using an iframe inside an SVG and it caused an error for the
> d3 renderer used by the Brunel chart and the Brunel chart wasn't drawn. I
> didn't notice where there were any limitations on using iframes and their
> content in the SVG documentation, are there limitations on iframes is a
> spec? Can someone point to them?
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Fred Esch
> Accessibility Focal, Watson Solutions
> AARB Complex Visualization Working Group Chair
> W3C SVG Accessibility Task Force
> [image: IBM Watson]
>
>    [image: Fred]
>
>
>
>
> [image: Inactive hide details for Richard Schwerdtfeger---09/25/2015
> 07:09:47 PM---I updated the document. I felt we should keep the Ac]Richard
> Schwerdtfeger---09/25/2015 07:09:47 PM---I updated the document. I felt we
> should keep the Accessibility API section but I dramatically
>
> From: Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS
> To: public-svg-a11y@w3.org
> Date: 09/25/2015 07:09 PM
> Subject: SVG AAM
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> I updated the document.
>
> I felt we should keep the Accessibility API section but I dramatically
> simplified it. The core group could benefit from a similar undertaking.
>
> I modified the section on Excluding Elements from the Accessibility tree
> to reference the mapping table (reducing its size) but I also modified the
> mapping table to replace not mapped with no accessible object created. It
> was clear we need to differentiate not creating a corresponding accessible
> object from the tree from how we impact the accessible name and
> description.
>
> I am going to take up the discussion about hidden elements with the
> core-aam team. There is a fundamental difference over HTML where attributes
> are limited to being applied on elements wheeas in SVG these can be child
> elements such as in <desc> and <tittle>. These are really attributes more
> than they are "programmatically hidden" content such as when display:none
> is applied. Thanks for flagging that Amelia.
>
> *http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/svg-aam/svg-aam.html*
> <http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/svg-aam/svg-aam.html>
>
> I also removed references to UIA Express. This API has been abandoned with
> IE 11 and no further work is being done on it or IE itself in terms of
> accessibility. We will focus on UIA for Edge. AT vendors can access the SVG
> markup from the DOM like they do with IE today.
>
> I would like to do a heartbeat draft soon. There have been extensive
> modifications from the first draft earlier this year.
>
> Rich
>
>
> Rich Schwerdtfeger
>
>
>