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Minutes: June 19, 2015 SVG Accessibility Task Force Meeting

From: Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2015 09:05:41 -0500
To: public-svg-a11y@w3.org
Message-ID: <OFC94E2C15.4CBAE5F8-ON86257E69.004D372E-86257E69.004D6D26@us.ibm.com>

Minutes: June 19, 2015 SVG Accessibility Task Force Meeting


Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
19 Jun 2015

See also: IRC log

      Rich, chaals, Fred, Jason, LJWatson
         1.	Actions
         2.	Action 1589
         3.	New Documents
         4.	Taxonomy
      Summary of Action Items

<trackbot> Date: 19 June 2015

<richardschwerdtfeger> chair: Fred

<richardschwerdtfeger> Meeting: SVG Accessibility Task Force

<richardschwerdtfeger> https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/access.html


<fesch> Supports the ‘a’ element, enablign authors to supply the link
purpose both from its content.

<richardschwerdtfeger> https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/access.html

<richardschwerdtfeger> scribenick: Rich


<chaals> action-1589?

<trackbot> action-1589 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Update the accessibility
appendix in the main svg specs, to link back to the relevant content -- due
2015-02-27 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1589

Action 1589

<chaals> close action-1589

<trackbot> Closed action-1589.

<chaals> action-1600

<trackbot> action-1600 -- Léonie Watson to Get with doug to build a
starting navigation strategy for charts -- due 2015-03-27 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1600

<richardschwerdtfeger> fred: Start doing a navigation strategy for charts

<chaals> action-1600 due in 3 weeks

<trackbot> Set action-1600 Get with doug to build a starting navigation
strategy for charts due date to 2015-07-10.

<chaals> action-1602?

<trackbot> action-1602 -- Jason White to Find some stem graphics to
consider as use cases -- due 2015-03-27 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1602

<chaals> assign action-1602 to chaals

<chaals> action-1602 on chaals

<richardschwerdtfeger> Jason: I have put together a preliminary document
and sent it to Charles who will put it up on a wiki

<richardschwerdtfeger> action-1603?

<trackbot> action-1603 -- Charles McCathie Nevile to Work with jasonw,
markkuh and the universe to discover how people do interaction… -- due
2015-07-17 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1603

New Documents

<richardschwerdtfeger> Rich: Please look at the revised SVG accessibility
appendix and send me comments: https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/access.html

<fesch> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/graphics.html

<fesch> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/graphics.html

<richardschwerdtfeger> fred: Let’s start talking about roles

<richardschwerdtfeger> fred: There one area that is talking about SVG in
the third person

<richardschwerdtfeger> amelia: We should edit the co-evolution of WAI-ARIA
and host languages

<richardschwerdtfeger> ACTION: Rich update preliminaries in the SVG spec to
better focus on SVG vs. legacy HTML [recorded in

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1659 - Update preliminaries in the svg spec to
better focus on svg vs. legacy html [on Richard Schwerdtfeger - due

<richardschwerdtfeger> fred: Let’s look at section 4.1 where there are 2
new graphics roles g-icon and g-symbol

<richardschwerdtfeger> Amelia: I think the intro needs to more clearly
emphasize the action

<richardschwerdtfeger> Amelia: We don’t want to encourage people to support
interactivity where it needs to be interactive

<richardschwerdtfeger> Amelia: I will update the example

<richardschwerdtfeger> Jason: I suggest we make it look like the ARIA Spec.
in terms of its position in the taxonmy

<richardschwerdtfeger> Amelia: we need to require the name

<richardschwerdtfeger> Fred: Let’s discuss symbol

<AmeliaBR> Link to repo: https://github.com/w3c/aria

<AmeliaBR> Link to rawgit:

<richardschwerdtfeger> Amelia: I will play around with the definition of

<richardschwerdtfeger> Amelia: The symbol element will never be in the
accessibility tree

<richardschwerdtfeger> Amelia: we need to apply symbol to <use>

<richardschwerdtfeger> Amelia: you have one of these text icon on an
element witthin a group. …

<richardschwerdtfeger> Fred: were we coing to ask for something linked from
a symbol?

<richardschwerdtfeger> Amelia: I am going to spend to day working on this.
We can go over edits to the mapping spec. next week

<richardschwerdtfeger> Fred: Were there roles that we missed and agreed to
put in

<richardschwerdtfeger> Amelia: there is the figure role and the structured
graphical component

<richardschwerdtfeger> Fred: That mean it is like a group or something?

<richardschwerdtfeger> Fred: Any other comments on the document so far.

<richardschwerdtfeger> Amelia: Is everyone ok for me puttng in fallback
role information?

<richardschwerdtfeger> Rich: Yes if is informative notes


<richardschwerdtfeger> Fred: We have some pretty aggressive schedules.

<richardschwerdtfeger> Doug: The SVG working group is going to have another
face to face in Paris in the fall.

<richardschwerdtfeger> Doug: Looking to CR version of SVG in Q!16

<richardschwerdtfeger> Rich: I would like to see the chart roles in SVG2

<richardschwerdtfeger> Rich: Would like to also see roles needed fo native
host language semantics as well as needed states and properties to synch
with HTML as well

<richardschwerdtfeger> Rich: There is an aria-roledescription going into
ARIA 1.1

<richardschwerdtfeger> Rich: Trying to get ARIA 1.1 locked down too

<richardschwerdtfeger> Amelia: let’s talk about the graphical group role
and what to call it

<richardschwerdtfeger> Doug: I would like to see g-group

<richardschwerdtfeger> Fred: is there a definition for that on the wiki?


<richardschwerdtfeger> Amelia: Graphica components can be nested. These
should be the default role for <svg> and <g> in SVG.

<richardschwerdtfeger> Amelia: If you put a title on this group it maps to
a new role

<richardschwerdtfeger> Fred: Before we said we were going to explicitly
define roles … I wanted to put a label on a group to have it participate in

<richardschwerdtfeger> Fred: Do I need to put a role on that?

<richardschwerdtfeger> Rich: no it maps automatically

<richardschwerdtfeger> Rich: if you have alternative text on it

<richardschwerdtfeger> Fred: looking at the stack bar chart and we want to
be able to navigate up and down the stacks. To make it navigable we don’t
need to put a role on it.

<richardschwerdtfeger> Fred: … we don’t need to put tabindex on everything

<richardschwerdtfeger> Fred: I thought we had an explicit thing on it we
need to put a role on it.

<richardschwerdtfeger> Rich: no

<richardschwerdtfeger> Amelia: there is a set of about 5 things that
trigger whether it is in the accessibility tree.

<richardschwerdtfeger> Amelia: it makes polyfills a little harder

<richardschwerdtfeger> Fred: that is great

<richardschwerdtfeger> Rich: The important thing is does the role of the
object reflect its purpose

<richardschwerdtfeger> Amelia: The one thing I wanted to clarify is that if
we are going to refer to graphical group it will be the main role for an
entire SVG.

<richardschwerdtfeger> Amelia: We need to have a way that they have
switchted into a graphics (graphical group) and it may trigger a new
graphical navigation mode.

<richardschwerdtfeger> Amelia: right now we have document and widget
navigation modes

<richardschwerdtfeger> Amelia: if we are going to have new graphical
navigation modes then we need to let the browser and AT to know that you
have now entered into a graphical navigation mode.

<richardschwerdtfeger> Fred: If you have SVG can you have a role of icon?

<richardschwerdtfeger> Amelia: that means you could not navigate inside

<richardschwerdtfeger> Amelia: We said you need to be able to navigate
based on the visual layout (left, right, top, down) … to deal with things
like charts and maps

<richardschwerdtfeger> Amelia: Similar to the way you navigate a table

<richardschwerdtfeger> Amelia: if we are going to investigate new
navigation options

<richardschwerdtfeger> Fred: there is navigating like a tree

<richardschwerdtfeger> Leonie: I don’t relish the work having to adjust to
this as a user

<richardschwerdtfeger> Charles: visual navigation is not an easy way to get
around what you can’t see.

<richardschwerdtfeger> Charles: it is a mechanism that is extremely
limiting at best.

<richardschwerdtfeger> Leonie: from an unsighted perspective spacial
navigation is difficult.

<richardschwerdtfeger> Amelia: We don’t want to tab through a 100 things to
get to something

<richardschwerdtfeger> Fred: I think you could just support both so that
the user has a way to pick the navigation mode they want

<AmeliaBR> s/We don't/It's more for sighted keyboard users, who don't/

<richardschwerdtfeger> Jason: Graphical group might trigger a different
navigation mode. If someone is using SVG to create their own widget set. …
What you are doing is creating a whole set of child nodes that effect your
accessibility tree

<richardschwerdtfeger> Jason: You may not want an explicit group there

<chaals> [chaals leaves]

<richardschwerdtfeger> Jason: … non-presentational child elements

Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Rich update preliminaries in the SVG spec to better focus on
SVG vs. legacy HTML [recorded in

Rich Schwerdtfeger
Received on Friday, 19 June 2015 14:16:28 UTC

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