Re: ZULIP interop

re: solid messaging my thinking is that WebRTC has a variety of benefits;
whilst, i've not done exacting research on the particular field of
real-time messaging, as to figure out what might be considered a 'better'

On Thu, 23 May 2019 at 22:08, Alexandre Bourlier <> wrote:

> We are ourselves working on an XMPP chat, bases on ConverseJS, that we
> bridge to the Solid world to get proper notifications and all.
> We are very interested in following the advances on this project, see a
> demo or even contribute if we end up convinced it is worth shifting our
> efforts towards this lib.

I think it's important to understand that most 'groupware' (meaning tools
used by incorporated legal persons, and those affiliated to them) do not
use decentralised infrastructure; including (but not exclusive to) W3C.  It
would be great to employ the fantastic online ecosystem, using a multi-site
wordpress install, list server and other LDAP related attributes for other
organisations; but i've not found the GitHub Repo - not even to provide it
to ISOC, whose web experience (and those of its regional chapters) i
consider to be 'substandard'.

re: web civics install of zulip - it's early days - Happy to add you to my
install community - ping me a note.

Noting also, this is one of many objectives - but one that i felt was both
worthy of noting here, and worthy of consideration by others.

instrumentally - with respect to the 'topic', I'm not sure what the $ would
be to get it done.  Interested to hear testimonials.  The point being, i
can put that in a spreadsheet and add it to my understanding of how to get
good stuff done.  I don't think W3C CGs are a place to do numbers about
getting work done (rather, work gets done, and is then subject to
licensing) so; suggestion is - if interested, let me know privately.

As noted; whilst it's still relatively early days, i'm particularly
attracted to this particular 'groupware' due to its form of relating to an
'ontologically compatible' approach; alongside its apache-licensing
framework.  i see enormous benefits for building the tooling required to
make it interoperable with solid / solid PODs / Solid POD providers.

one such example; is the means for persons to be 'stalker safe', which is
important for all too many; and i think, this may be a conduit to support
that, without excluding those who may be PEPs[1] or for other reasons,
uncomfortable about public environments.

there's also a balance between 'group ware' (as may be used by corporates,
etc.) and the means for those environments to be federated both with other
'group ware' environments; alongside personal environments, such as those
solid is moreover targeting as a solution - where others fail to 'meet' the
'fit for purpose' nature of what's reasonably required, for natural
persons. whether or not they hold trading names (noting those who act as
'agents' for corporations, may or may not be acting for organisations bound
by law to any form of human rights legislation; for themselves, others,
foreigners or otherwise - noting the concept of legal aliens[2]); therein,

my work attends to seeking means to attenuate the relationship between work
that is valued by others; and workers-rights.  it's kinda different to the
age where stone-masons worked on building libraries or universities[3];
micro-payments (and identity infrastructure) can now support tiny fees
across tens of thousands of beneficiaries in-turn to support an hours work
of a human; whereas labourers previously, only really got paid by one
person, and since exodus there's always been issues of slavery that were
inconvenient for many to consider.

Real-time messaging is critically important to the decentralisation of
discovery; and the means through which, solid may be developed to realise
the apparatus required for some important changes to the socio-economics
through which we augment our natural world, and the nature of life that is
innately part of it.

the freedom for persons to associate in groups, as to perform work[4] is
amongst the most primitive of human rights, which i am seeking to support
by way of this public enquiry, in a manner that expressly seeks to form an
approach that is interoperable with solid.

Timothy Holborn.
Trust Factory
Web Civics
Media Prophet


> Timothy Holborn <> schrieb am Do., 23. Mai 2019,
> 13:38:
>> I've found zulip, which is a chat server that's apache licensed.
>> Interested in a cost to build a solid extension.  Both for
>> interoperability with solid users and the auth method used by solid users
>> (probably Webid-oidc)
>> Note:
>> Note also,
>> The chat environment supports topic based semantics. Objectively the hope
>> would be to form interoperability between this useful group tool, and the
>> means to federated contributions towards solving various topics, by people
>> who are different, and permitted to (safely) participate in different
>> groups.
>> Let me know if interested.
>> I have an.install, but am being selective at this stage about who gets
>> involved.
>> POC work, essentially.
>> Timo.

Received on Thursday, 23 May 2019 14:15:22 UTC