Re: Getting the group back on track

Ben,

We probably need to put together a PHP package for parsing and 
generating AS 2.0.

Are you interested in helping out with that?

-Evan

On 2015-10-06 07:26 PM, Ben Werdmüller wrote:
>
> Yes, if that is this group's firm recommendation. That doesn't mean 
> we'll drop support for other formats (we will certainly continue to 
> embrace indieweb recommendations), but I'm keen to see real-world 
> interoperation happen on a wider scale.
>
> Ben
>
>
> On Tuesday, October 6, 2015, Harry Halpin <hhalpin@w3.org 
> <mailto:hhalpin@w3.org>> wrote:
>
>
>
>     On 10/06/2015 10:20 PM, Ben Werdmüller wrote:
>>
>>     Please count Known in as an implementer. Happy to move forward
>>     quickly.
>
>     Of ActivityStreams 2.0 in particular?
>
>       cheers,
>              harry
>
>>
>>     Ben
>>
>>     On Tuesday, October 6, 2015, Harry Halpin <hhalpin@w3.org
>>     <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','hhalpin@w3.org');>> wrote:
>>
>>         +1 to this email.
>>
>>         On 10/06/2015 07:06 PM, Christopher Allan Webber wrote:
>>         > Hello all,
>>         >
>>         > So I initially wrote a different version of this email, but
>>         I thought
>>         > today's call was lively enough that it deserved a rewrite. 
>>         So here
>>         > goes!
>>         >
>>         > I'm glad to hear that there's a general concern in the
>>         group that we
>>         > really need to get moving for real on the client to server
>>         / server to
>>         > server APIs.  I was also happy to hear that in general
>>         people seem eager
>>         > to get ActivityStreams to move forward.  Great news!  Now,
>>         can we do it?
>>         > Can we fulfill the missions of this group?
>>         >
>>         > I think we can.  ActivityStreams 2.0 is already looking
>>         quite polished.
>>         > Today we got some good clarity on what an ActivityStreams
>>         test suite
>>         > would look like, and I can help on this.  But the
>>         deliverables of social
>>         > api and federation api seem stuck in a rut.  At minimum, we
>>         need to
>>         > agree on a format and move forward with it.
>>
>>         Right now, off top of my head implementers would be:
>>
>>         1) IBM Connections
>>         2) Pump.io
>>         3) MediaGoblin
>>         4) Objective8 (Thoughtworks)
>>
>>         Anyone else?
>>
>>         Compared to many other W3C specs, if we can get them all
>>         *actually*
>>         implemented and tested that would be great - and would be
>>         fine for CR.
>>         While I admit AS2 implementer momentum is not as much as we
>>         want, it
>>         does exist.
>>         >
>>         > Since it's already a deliverable, the mandatory format
>>         might as well be
>>         > ActivityStreams + JSON.  It's okay to say in the
>>         specification that
>>         > other formats are optional, and here's how to handle them, but
>>         > ActivityStreams should be mandatory.  As Evan said on the
>>         call today, it
>>         > would "look strange" to not have that be part of the
>>         official APIs the
>>         > group puts forward.  But appearing non-strange is just one
>>         reason: the
>>         > goal of this group should be putting forward a standard
>>         that the real
>>         > world will probably use.  The real world is currently
>>         setting up
>>         > endpoints that shoot JSON back and forth at each other. 
>>         Well, we've got a
>>         > basis, and start defining how to shoot that across some
>>         endpoints.
>>
>>         S/JSON/JSON-LD but yes, most people will use it as JSON.
>>
>>         >
>>         > By the way, it's my observation (and actually not at all
>>         just my
>>         > observation, several people external to the group have
>>         raised this to
>>         > me, even while I was traveling to FSF 30th just this last
>>         weekend) that
>>         > one of the main causes of this group getting so "stuck in a
>>         rut" is that
>>         > this group is caught in the crossfire that has been going
>>         on for 15
>>         > years: Microformats vs Linked Data.  I have massive respect
>>         for people
>>         > on both sides, and I'd love to see this group serve some
>>         purpose of
>>         > seeing these sides come together, but more than anything I
>>         believe the
>>         > opposite has happened: again and again we get caught into
>>         age-old
>>         > arguments between these camps.
>>         >
>>         > The Microformats vs Linked Data war has been going on for
>>         15 years.  If
>>         > it hasn't been solved outside of this group in all this
>>         time, there's no
>>         > way it can be reconciled inside this group.  Take it outside!
>>
>>         I would suggest the Social IG. I would actually put the Activity
>>         Vocabulary and all vocabulary issues in the Social IG, as
>>         specified in
>>         the original charter.
>>
>>         Some people seemed to dislike my noting what was on and out
>>         of scope of
>>         charter, but I might add we seem to have gone down a few
>>         ratholes and
>>         not made as much progress as we wanted. Let's reverse that
>>         trend by
>>         staying in charter and in scope!
>>
>>         >
>>         > I have more to say on all the above subjects, but in the
>>         interest of
>>         > keeping this email short, here's a summary: we already have
>>         a nice and
>>         > dandy serialization format that fits the toolchains of most
>>         of the web
>>         > frameworks out there.  We've spent a lot of time getting it
>>         to a state
>>         > that the group seems reasonably happy with.  We should take
>>         advantage of
>>         > that and move forward on recommending APIs that people can use.
>>
>>         +1. I hope we can get a LDP/micropub - and let's not forget
>>         ActivityPump
>>         convergence. Microformats can convert to JSON, and so can
>>         RDF. Thus, I
>>         don't see a huge problem with going forward with AS2.
>>
>>         >
>>         > So, how about it?
>>         >  - Chris
>>         >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     -- 
>>     *Ben Werdmuller*
>>     CEO & co-founder, Known
>>     withknown.com <http://withknown.com> | werd.io <http://werd.io>
>>     +1 (312) 488-9373
>>
>>     Known, Inc | 421 Bryant St | San Francisco, CA 94107
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> *Ben Werdmuller*
> CEO & co-founder, Known
> withknown.com <http://withknown.com> | werd.io <http://werd.io>
> +1 (312) 488-9373
>
> Known, Inc | 421 Bryant St | San Francisco, CA 94107
>

Received on Saturday, 10 October 2015 20:44:31 UTC