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Re: Error in schema.org context or are we overlooking something ? Re: first user story for SoLiD & schema + v-card feedback

From: <henry.story@bblfish.net>
Date: Sun, 3 May 2015 17:53:54 +0200
Cc: Andreas Kuckartz <a.kuckartz@ping.de>, public-socialweb@w3.org
Message-Id: <EC69B9B7-A6F9-4D9D-9F46-B3244627E410@bblfish.net>
To: Dan Brickley <danbri@danbri.org>

> On 3 May 2015, at 14:58, Dan Brickley <danbri@danbri.org> wrote:
> 
> On 3 May 2015 at 12:18, Andreas Kuckartz <a.kuckartz@ping.de> wrote:
>> henry.story@bblfish.net wrote:
>>> So when one looks at the example of schema:Person and translates it
>>> to RDF one is pretty schocked to see:
>>> 
>>> []  a :Person;
>>>    :address  [
>>>                 a :PostalAddress;
>>>                 :addressLocality "Seattle";
>>>                 :addressRegion "WA";
>>>                 :postalCode "98052";
>>>                 :streetAddress "20341 Whitworth Institute 405 N. Whitworth"
>>>     ];
>>>     :colleague "http://www.xyz.edu/students/alicejones.html",
>>>                "http://www.xyz.edu/students/bobsmith.html";
>>>     :email "mailto:jane-doe@xyz.edu";
>>>     :image <http://json-ld.org/playground/janedoe.jpg>;
>>>     :jobTitle "Professor";
>>>     :name "Jane Doe";
>>>     :telephone "(425) 123-4567";
>>>     :url <http://www.janedoe.com> .
>>> 
>>> 
>>> So the postal address if fine, but the colleague as a link to a string
>>> representing a document is a complete no go for SoLiD. This means that
>>> SoLiD applications would need to guess now if a string was meant as a URL.
>>> How would that function for relative URLs? Would one have to try to
>>> dereference each name as a relative URL first before then trying to
>> display
>>> it?
>> 
>> To me that looks as if there is an error somewhere and that the two
>> strange lines should be:
>> 
>>      :colleague <http://www.xyz.edu/students/alicejones.html>,
>>                 <http://www.xyz.edu/students/bobsmith.html>;
>> 
>> The documentation states that the "Expected Type" for "colleague" is
>> "Person" but the JSON-LD context delivered from http://schema.org does
>> not say anything about "colleague".
>> 
>> Maybe Dan can resolve this?
> 
> JSON-LD imposes awkward distinctions which don't map well to the
> thing-or-string flexibility of schema.org properties, however the
> context-amended defaults can be over-riden locally. We anticipate that
> many properties (such as 'colleague') will be used in descriptions
> where an inline description is used, e.g. a Person. We do generally
> not make a fuss if a string is supplied instead.
> 
> Currently we don't set type to @id if a property anticipates a general
> Thing subtype, unless it is explicitly set to anticipate URL values.
> URL is a little odd in schema.org's system since it looks
> superficially like "a kind of Text string that is an URL" but really
> serves more as a hint that the property might be written using remote
> entity references.
> 
> https://github.com/schemaorg/schemaorg/blob/sdo-gozer/api.py#L665 is
> the code if you're curious.
> 
> Probably your best work around for these cases is { "@id":
> "http://example.com" }. If there are a lot of them we could consider
> tweaking the context in cases where strings are unlikely/unwelcome
> (easiest way would be by adding URL as an expected type).

Mhh, I am reconsidering now. 

I am thinking that normal people using schema.org should
use the following

{
  "@context": {
     "schema": "https://schema.org/"
  },
  "url": "http://bblfish.net/",
  "schema:knows":  { "url": "http://www.w3.org/People/Berners-Lee/" }
}

This would then allow SoLiD http-range-14 geeks to write correctly

{
  "@context": {
     "schema": "https://schema.org/"
  },
  "@id": "http://bblfish.net/#me",
  "url": "http://bblfish.net/",
  "schema:knows":  { 
     "@id": "http://www.w3.org/People/Berners-Lee/card#i" 
     "url": "http://www.w3.org/People/Berners-Lee/"
   }
}

( You could explain this in a page on http-range-14 that mentioned the WebID page and a lot of complex technical warning - perhaps mention category theory or even better Homotopy type theory - so that nobody who was  not technically oriented would ever bother reading it ).

But perhaps it would be good to update the examples that were problematic for normal people so that the first example of http://schema.org/Person
becomes

{
  "@context": "http://schema.org",
  "@type": "Person",
  "address": {
    "@type": "PostalAddress",
    "addressLocality": "Seattle",
    "addressRegion": "WA",
    "postalCode": "98052",
    "streetAddress": "20341 Whitworth Institute 405 N. Whitworth"
  },
  "colleague": [
     { "url": "http://www.xyz.edu/students/alicejones.html"},
     { "url": "http://www.xyz.edu/students/bobsmith.html"}
  ],
  "email": "mailto:jane-doe@xyz.edu",
  "image": "janedoe.jpg",
  "jobTitle": "Professor",
  "name": "Jane Doe",
  "telephone": "(425) 123-4567",
  "url": "http://www.janedoe.com"
}

That seems to be reasonably easy for people to grok.
{ "url": "http://..." } looks very much like <a href="...">

Henry

> 
> Dan

Social Web Architect
http://bblfish.net/
Received on Sunday, 3 May 2015 15:54:24 UTC

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