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Re: Prohibiting authors from disabling Pinch Zoom as failure for Reflow 1.4.10

From: Luis Garcia <w3c@garcialo.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2019 12:44:12 -0800
Message-ID: <CACRwngSeVsFDQnfycwvFvy_pauKS2oOzO--Xn45kOqjLOWyerQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Shawn Lauriat <lauriat@google.com>
Cc: Silver TF <public-silver@w3.org>
Yeah, if all user agents had this feature it wouldn't be an issue in the
same way that there would be less text color contrast issues if browsers
ignored styling for text color.

We should definitely nudge user agents into setting that just as people are
trying to nudge user agents into supporting things like heading/landmark
navigation with keyboard. But until then, the responsibility is on the site
developers to avoid creating barriers by disabling zooming just as
developers need to provide skip links to avoid repetitive navigation links.

I would think that given the Silver goal of updating more frequently, we
would both encourage user agents while providing guidance to site creators
via methods. We could always retire a method if it became obsolete because
of changes to what user agents are doing.

luis

On Tue, Jan 29, 2019 at 12:29 PM Shawn Lauriat <lauriat@google.com> wrote:

> Would it make a difference if all user agents had this feature? What if
> they all had it enabled by default?
>
> According to WCAG conformance, I agree and would still mark this as a
> failure. In the context of our conversation for Silver conformance, though,
> would/could we instead use this as a way to nudge other user agents into
> adding thing kind of support.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Shawn
>
> On Tue, Jan 29, 2019 at 3:19 PM Luis Garcia <w3c@garcialo.com> wrote:
>
>> If you use a user agent that ensures you can zoom, then it doesn't create
>> a barrier for you...while you're using that user agent. And while one user
>> agent having that ability implies that you could have it in another user
>> agent, it doesn't guarantee that you would (or even should) have it in
>> another user agent. While the barrier wouldn't exist for you, it would
>> still exist either until that functionality became guaranteed in all user
>> agents or the web page that disabled zooming stopped disabling it.
>>
>> I would say, it's still a failure and that the responsibility is with the
>> site developer.
>>
>> Perhaps in the same way that we would provide a method for ensuring a
>> contrast minimum for text, we could provide a method for ensuring zoomable
>> text/content.
>>
>> "Ensure that users can always zoom the page" and then gives guidance for
>> how to avoid building a page that creates this barrier.
>>
>> As an aside, the methods I've seen for disabling zooming has typically
>> been done via <meta name="viewport"...> elements with user-scalable="no" or
>> some value set for maximum-scale.
>>
>> luis
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 29, 2019 at 9:13 AM Shawn Lauriat <lauriat@google.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Forwarding a question from Josh on the main working group list that I'd
>>> like to expand on, given the conversation we had around conformance and
>>> user agent requirements.
>>>
>>> Flipping the question of how to express usability failure in terms of
>>> user agent / assistive tech / platform gaps around to the other case:
>>> currently, Chrome (Android) offers a setting to enable the user to remove
>>> the ability of a site to disable pinch zoom (Settings > Accessibility >
>>> Force enable zoom), but Chrome for iOS doesn't offer this (that I can find,
>>> at least). If I use a user agent that ensures I can zoom no matter what the
>>> content specifies, implying other user agents could very well offer the
>>> same feature, does this still constitute a failure? Does that failure's
>>> responsibility sit with the user agent or the CSS of the site?
>>>
>>> Given our current direction of only having methods and not having
>>> "Failure techniques", I think this example would pass, as the user has ways
>>> to still zoom as needed, given that a cognitive walkthrough would take into
>>> account the user agent ability to override the zoom behavior of the site
>>> (just like user stylesheets can override site CSS).
>>>
>>> What do you think?
>>>
>>> -Shawn
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 29, 2019 at 9:26 AM Joshue O Connor - InterAccess <
>>> josh@interaccess.ie> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> In the failures section there are 'draft' failures listed. This one
>>>> with health warnings.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    - @@ "Interfering with a user agent's ability to zoom" i.e., author
>>>>    using: maximum-scale or minimum-scale or user-scalable=no or
>>>>    user-scalable=0 in the meta element ?? @@ Note: In Pinch zoom
>>>>    thread on the WCAG list
>>>>    <https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2016AprJun/0502.html>
>>>>     people did not seem to be in favor of this as a failure.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> While it would make a tidy failure if we could say - 'do not disable
>>>> pinch zoom'. If that's not a runner it should be removed as a failure as
>>>> its currently confusing to see it there. I see Jon and Patricks comments
>>>> after David posed the question.
>>>>
>>>> Any good reason for keeping it?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> --
>>>> Joshue O Connor
>>>> Director | InterAccess.ie
>>>>
>>>
Received on Tuesday, 29 January 2019 20:44:45 UTC

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