Minutes from meeting of 12 June, 2018

Formatted version of minutes
https://www.w3.org/2018/06/12-silver-minutes.html

Text of minutes:

[1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                               - DRAFT -

                 Silver Community Group Teleconference

12 Jun 2018

Attendees

   Present
          Lauriat, alastairc, kirkwood, jeanne, JakeAbma,
          Jennison, Imelda, Roy, shari, MichaelC, chaals, Charles,
          LuisG, Jan, Angela, mikeCrabb, JohnM, jaeunjemmaku

   Regrets

   Chair
          SV_MEETING_CHAIR

   Scribe
          LuisG

Contents

     * [2]Topics
         1. [3]TPAC
         2. [4]Requirements prep
         3. [5]Project plan
         4. [6]Information Architecture
         5. [7]Project plan
     * [8]Summary of Action Items
     * [9]Summary of Resolutions
     __________________________________________________________

   <mikeCrabb> I'm here but only on IRC

TPAC

   TPAC this year; we will be meeting toward end of October. If
   you can make it, awesome and let us know.

Requirements prep

   Shawn: Next thing, requirements prep. To get everyone up to
   speed. We've sent them to Alastair to get survey to working
   group at the end of last week so we could present during WG
   call today.
   ... Due to mixed emails, that didn't happen in time. We sent it
   but he didn't see it. Tried to get on schedule anyway and then
   send survey after the fact.
   ... Idea behind survey is to ensure people can see it...like
   people at mEnabling...and the prompt people for input
   ... basically just problem statements

   <Lauriat> The problem statements: Represent a reasonable set of
   challenges for the Silver guidelines to tackle. Represent a
   reasonable set of challenges for the Silver guidelines to
   tackle, but may have too many (details in the comment)
   Represent a reasonable set of challenges for the Silver
   guidelines to tackle, but are missing some key challenges
   (details in the comment)

   <Lauriat> The design principles: Represent the direction that
   the Silver guidelines should go. Are missing some key aspect
   (details in the comments)

   Shawn: Basically just trying to prompt for feedback.
   ... We had planned to say "this is how things are different" in
   the introduction. This is just high level draft, but wanted to
   get feedback and affirmation that we're doing the right thing.
   ... But I haven't heard back from Alastair, so I doubt we'll be
   on the agenda in about an hour. Comment or questions?

   Jennison: Ddi you get impression that working group is up to
   date or that they'd need more time to look at the problem
   statements before completing the survey?

   Shawn: Not really, but this is mostly to try and prompt for
   feedback. To get them in the mind set of "this is what is
   happening, is it in the right direction?"
   ... expecting people will say "it's super high level, it's
   fine, let us know when there is more detail"

   Jennison: So you're thinking it won't happen today, it'll be
   next week?

   Shawn: Yeah...and that will fall on Jeanne, because I'm going
   to be out. Maybe the Thursday afterward I would be around for
   that.
   ... I will keep folks posted as that moves forward.

Project plan

Information Architecture

   Shawn: Going to skip to 4
   ... Peter introduce yourself?

   Peter: I'm a Sr. UX Consultant from ?? for 5 years working with
   Alastair
   ... He's given me some documents to read up on. That's where I
   am at the minute. Hello to everyone.

   Shawn: Welcome. Charles, can you speak to Information
   Architecture project and where we are?

   Charles: Looking for someone to own it.
   ... found a Karen Shriver, she's intersted in volunteering.
   Mike Crab sent out an email last night with a document having
   reverse engineered current WCAG structure.
   ... perfectly illustrates point I made last Tuesday of having
   an outline of current structure to test our new structure
   ... this is spot on what I was trying to describe and super
   useful. I think it is essentially read to put against any
   prototype outlines.

   <mikeCrabb> Hope that the document was helpful?

   Shawn: This is the outline of the current A/B structure
   document.

   <Lauriat> Outline of Current AG Structure
   [10]https://docs.google.com/document/d/12f_IsDYjklM-jN_wzl8IMVP
   U5INkeOFKVBUJgkeMHgA/edit

     [10]
https://docs.google.com/document/d/12f_IsDYjklM-jN_wzl8IMVPU5INkeOFKVBUJgkeMHgA/edit

   Shawn: It was super helpful.
   ... for the identification of someone to own the project. Where
   would they pick up first?

   Charles: My understanding is we can solidify on the actual
   steps that were defined in information design tasks document.
   We had some reordering and feedback last Tuesday. Step one
   would be to get all of the volunteer effort assigned to some of
   these tasks.

   <Lauriat> Information Design Tasks
   [11]https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hharMRHLrqALWjcBp9M_F-u
   ZPEh73wt8Bgoe47Yfnjo/edit

     [11]
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hharMRHLrqALWjcBp9M_F-uZPEh73wt8Bgoe47Yfnjo/edit

   Charles: I think my next step is to ensure that the contact
   information is available

   Shawn: No worries

Project plan

   Shawn: Okay, switching back to item 3

   <Lauriat> Project plan
   [12]https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10p-8-v-XqRllBaX_eTi
   XXvyyDYeft8GRiN3_11V3U0w/edit#gid=0&range=A39

     [12]
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10p-8-v-XqRllBaX_eTiXXvyyDYeft8GRiN3_11V3U0w/edit#gid=0&range=A39

   Shawn: And that links specifically to the IA project. We moved
   some of the tasks from the planning document into this sheet.
   So we have a few things noted as far as assigned to and current
   status.
   ... I think we had two categories of tasks here

   Jennison: Is the cloude one completed?

   Charles: only for the Success Criteria themselves.
   ... not for techniques, etc.

   Shawn: Thats in progress at least.
   ... Mike, do you have an update on...

   <Lauriat> Status of "Create half a dozen prototypes, and check
   that we have a structure that is sort of usable"

   Shawn: that is also assigned to Chaals and Jeanne
   ... neither of whom are on the call.

   Charles: I still intend to update the original prototype from
   table 4 that more closely aligns to my original intent.

   Shawn: I'll add you to the list.

   <mikeCrabb> I was waiting on getting the IA in place to start
   making prototypes, will be taking the DB that I made earlier
   and then starting to mock up stuff with that in the next week

   Shawn: Awesome, thank you

   <mikeCrabb> Have also added in things to github in a pull
   request to look at getting a structure for people to add their
   own prototypes there

   <mikeCrabb> [13]https://github.com/w3c/silver/pull/15

     [13] https://github.com/w3c/silver/pull/15

   Shawn: Great, thank you.
   ... Is there a quick overview?

   Charles: I think the main objective is the folder structure so
   each prototype has unique folder, index.html, and README

   Shawn: That makes sense.

   Charles: Is Jeanne still working on action item to have a
   document for Github process?

   Shawn: I believe so, don't know status but she's been working
   with MichaelC
   ... similarly to how Mike Crabb did this PR, each person can
   create a branch and work within that..instead of forking within
   your own account and then pulling into master...which has its
   own issues.
   ... Think this might be less conflicting
   ... I don't fully understand it, but I believe she is writing
   it up along with the reasoning
   ... but I can email Jeanne to check in with that
   ... back to tasks

   <Lauriat> Create a standard method of allowing others to cite
   and link to specific pieces of Silver.

   Shawn: that I think is dependent on some of the other
   prototyping...as far as the new structure
   ... possibility it's not, but want to avoid situation other
   working groups have where links break constantly because
   they're generated
   ... don't know a lot about it, but some of the ARIA practices
   it breaks or links fall off or go somewhere else. we want to
   avoid that

   Jennison: Is that a bug or feature? Would we have to pull
   someone technical or can we control it?

   Shawn: If we use that system, we'd need someone technical to
   fix it...but that would fix it for everyone using it.
   Otherwise, we can do it manually.
   ... hopefully...
   ... We haven't really wanted to dictate a form or format.
   ... Mainly in order to allow flexibility that makes most sense
   for prototype
   ... one may be just an outline
   ... one may be a full HTML page showing struture and rendering
   ... could be a relational outline or diagram of type of
   information we're going to store
   ... haven't specified it has to be in "this format" so people
   can prototype however they need to

   Alastair: It would be some kind of outline and rendering, but
   not necessarily in re-spect compatible format

   thanks

   <Lauriat> Create a standard method of citing and linking to
   other supporting documents (building on the WAI guideline)

   Shawn: Building on the guideline itself, but linking
   externally. I'm not sure what the standard practice is.

   Charles: One of the ideas I had with that is that it's kind of
   a pseudo styleguide
   ... not just the method of link to external resources, but
   identifying the type of resource. Ex. linking to W3
   understanding document than different than research or public
   resource

   Shawn: I agree that seems basically like a styleguide kind of
   thing
   ... this would probably be a good one to make sure to discuss
   more explicitly with education outreach working group. I expect
   they've hit this as much as anybody else.

   <Lauriat> Establish rules for how search should work (what
   features) and what content, metadata, microformats and schema
   may be required

   Shawn: next task

   <Lauriat> Obtain a list of frequently used search terms

   Shawn: Seems heavily related to the next task..
   ... we can probably just do it now, just need to know who to
   talk to to get that

   Alastair: MichaelC would be a good starting point. He would
   know who to ask or he could have it

   Shawn: I'll take that on.
   ... I'm going to reorder, since I think having the list of
   search terms will help

   Alastair: I would ask in a way that doesn't assume they have
   them.

   <Lauriat> Identify terms that would require definitions in a
   glossary

   Shawn: Can someone speak towards this task?

   Charles: I think this overlaps with simple language. There is
   an overall goal to write in simple language. There are some
   outliers like terminology that will be used throughout.
   ... so which terms need a definition and is that part of the
   outline or a central glossary

   Shawn: May also want to look into how to have glossary.
   ... It would be good to do some usability testing on current
   stuff to find stumbling points.
   ... when you hit a word it takes you out of context and into
   the glossary. within the definition of that word there are
   probably a few other words that are linked to
   ... along with the goals would include avoiding that situation

   Charles: Thats why I listed in Information Architecture

   Shawn: Adding some wording to make that clear

   Charles: A scenario could be "the sucess criteria around
   play/pause/stop for prercorded media" what does "prerecorded"
   mean?

   <Lauriat> Drafted rewording: Identify terms that would require
   definitions in a glossary, and the structure/mechanism of
   accessing term definitions

   Charles: if it can be provided in context, don't need to go
   down that rabbit hole

   Shawn: That make sense?

   Charles: That's good. Where are you writing these edits?

   Shawn: Phase 3 project plan sheet where we have assignees and
   status

   Charles: Ah, I was looking somewhere else

   Shawn: And the last one...

   <Lauriat> Create a list of names of disabilities and
   impairments

   Shawn: we have it noted as started
   ... as far as I know this one is on hold.

   Charles: Should we decide we need it, I will take that task.

   Jennison: Can someone give me a quick history of why we created
   that list?

   Charles: In case we needed categorization of them references
   from any success criteria.
   ... trying to make SC outline that didn't outline a disability
   but stated the problem. If a lower level of that outline needed
   to reference category, that would exist somewhere

   Jennison: Got it

   Shawn: I definitely liked that idea in table 4s prototype.
   ... I'd like to go back to the overall information architecture
   of prototype activities and finding an owner.
   ... sounds like we have a bunch of semi related projects
   ... some can be in parallel, but not others
   ... and not that great of depth

   Charles: Angela sent regrets, but at one point she was
   identified as interested in owning the project.

   Jennison: I think Jeanne was still following up with Angela is
   that was still the case.

   Shawn: What I'm thinking is what we could do to handle this is
   have one person coordinating creating half a dozen prototypes
   ... and other folks running and coordinating searching
   activities like obtaining the list and establishing how it
   should work
   ... as well as glossary aspects, that seems completely
   independent of the others
   ... I don't think we have to have one person signed up to
   coordinate all of them

   Charles: That's probably safe to say. I do see overlap between
   a lot of them. The glossary is related to tag clouds because
   they identify more complex terms

   Shawn: Thought they identify often used terms

   Charles: Fair point
   ... I think one person managing/overseeing all of these is too
   much

   Shawn: I still think it's a big task for one person to create
   half a dozen prototypes
   ... but still need coordination to avoid redundant prototypes

   Alastair: Anticipated it'd be split between a couple of people.
   Coordination between people doing prototypes would be good.

   <mikeCrabb> Agreed - I'm happy to assist in coordinating
   prototypes and also to make some of them

   Shawn: We could...for those working on prototypes...we have the
   PR from Mike Crab of structure where prototypes could live
   ... if we have people signed up to get notification of activity
   in prototypes branches, we could use that for coordination
   ... doesn't have to heavy handed coordination, just keep an eye
   on what others are working on
   ... just so people can coordinate and be aware of each others
   work.

   Alastair: Sounds good

   <mikeCrabb> Yup - a lot of it should just be a case of being on
   top of GitHub activity and making sure that everything there is
   working the way it's meant to.

   Shawn: Kind of coming to conclusion...if Angela can't do it,
   maybe I just volunteered myself.

   Charles: We also need to ensure when that status is given that
   there's an end path.
   ... not just that the prototype is being worked on, but that
   it's complete and ready to be tested

   Shawn: Status shouldn't just be "working on it"
   ... whoever is coordinating should be in this call to give
   accurate status so we can see progress as it's going through
   ... for that task with half a dozen prototypes...
   ... where should we document how these happen and what they are
   ... don't know we actually have them listed in here

   Charles: Do you want to scale the planning document with that
   level of detail or should it live elsewhere?

   Shawn: Probably elsewhere
   ... some of it is getting into Github process.
   ... Projects under Github might be a good place to put it?
   ... I think Chaals had some idea of "here be dragons" about
   that though
   ... making a note to check with Jeanne and ask about project
   tracking in Github. If nothing else we can have different
   sheets in projects plans to track this...but not at the high
   level of our current tracking sheet
   ... we need something to branch out the prototypes, listing
   them, whose working, what's next, what's done, etc.
   ... will ask Jeanne about github possibility to know if it's a
   bad idea then we can go from there

   Charles: Where should I share contact information for all of
   the volunteers? Just collect it in a Google Doc?

   Shawn: As long as only visible by Silver folks...don't want
   contact information in the public
   ... maybe in project plan to get working draft folder

   Jemma: These are volunteers but working with Github repository.
   Can't we contact them via Github

   Charles: My point is they're not that far yet
   ... they've replied to an email about being interested. they're
   not necessarily part of the group yet

   Jemma: Got it. We are in recruiting stage; not contribution
   stage.

   Shawn: Largely, we have folks ready to go ,but that's part of
   "these are the projects and people working on them" or "we
   don't have people working on them"
   ... not clear which we've identified and which have volunteers
   working on it or ready to work on it
   ... with that we have next steps. Much is emailing Jeanne
   ... and looking at volunteers and how we can allocate them
   ... we have some open questions, like for glossary project need
   to do some research how current one works...if it's great, then
   great, but may need to investigate
   ... coordinating with education outreach working group...could
   be assigned to whoever does prototype wrangling.
   ... I've assigned that to prototype wrangler
   ... anything else to bring up today?

   Charles: Is TPAC held at a hotel in which we would benefit from
   staying at or is anywhere nearby appropriate?

   <Lauriat> [14]https://www.w3.org/2018/10/TPAC/Overview.html

     [14] https://www.w3.org/2018/10/TPAC/Overview.html

   Shawn: I'll send a link around to it; haven't looked in detail
   ... anywhere nearby is probably fine, but I don't know what
   that means

   <Lauriat> trackbot, end meeting

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

   [End of minutes]