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Minutes of Silver meeting of 14 December

From: Jeanne Spellman <jspellman@spellmanconsulting.com>
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 10:45:04 -0500
To: Silver Task Force <public-silver@w3.org>
Message-ID: <e0603a8f-d684-406a-9e25-ccd06b829d6a@spellmanconsulting.com>
Formatted version of minutes:

Text of Minutes:


       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

                  Silver Community Group Teleconference

14 Dec 2018


           LuisG, Cyborg, KimD, Makoto, jeanne, Shawn, Jennison,
           Angela, MikeCrabb, Charles, AngelaAccessForAll,
           kirkwood, Lauriat, JF, shari, johnkirkwood, Scott,
           Cooley, scottcooley


           Jeanne, Shawn



      * [2]Topics
          1. [3]Point system/Levels & Conformance document
      * [4]Summary of Action Items
      * [5]Summary of Resolutions

Point system/Levels & Conformance document

    Lauriat: We had left off on Tuesday...we had talked through
    Bronze, Silver, Gold...how points would add up for each and
    then the points didn't matter for overall because the level
    would be determined the lowest of bronze, silver, or gold
    ... if you scores silver and gold in some categories, if you
    got bronze in one category, your overall score would be bronze
    since that's the lowest medal achieved in a category
    ... we were about to explore what kind of points scoring would
    we create to end up with bronze/silver/gold. for example,
    30/50/100 for the medals, respectively
    ... generally higher points means higher level
    ... we had talked about having more difficult or methods more
    beneficial to user be worth more points
    ... if we have, for example, 30/50/100 for the levels. When we
    add different methods for a guideline, how would we maintain
    the levels and how do we determine.

    Jeanne: One of the things JF said at the end of the meeting was
    setting a minimum test in each category that you must have and
    then have the level be your overall points
    ... so you had to do the minimum...it seems simpler and might
    be simpler to maintain

    Charles: I think it has merit, but still faces challenge that a
    large enterprise could earn a lot more points than a small
    private site with a couple of page

    Jeanne: only if you're scoring individual things. you wouldn't
    want to give points for each image that has alt text

    Lauriat: If you have just a page of text. Like a restaurant
    that just has a single page with their menu. A lot of tests
    won't apply.
    ... we had talked about the applicability of user needs or some

    Charles: will still have scenarios where some guidelines or
    methods or heuristic evaluations don't apply
    ... what happens if I have 9 gold and 1 bronze?

    Lauriat: We talked about the concept of beyond
    bronze/silver/gold if the user needs doesn't have anything that
    would ever come up. It wouldn't count against you.
    ... As a side note, in the conformance super drafty draft
    document, I made an addendum called "sketching things out" and
    I'm listing open questions
    ... we also wanted to award more points for organizations that
    do more extensive usability testing; for example with people
    with disabilities
    ... but the points system right now is around methods, how do
    we translate that?
    ... for instance, if you did usability testing with users with
    just one category of user need. then you could essentially get
    a boost in that user need category

    scottcooley: If they add heading structure, that would give
    them extra credit for applying heading structure method to make
    it more accessible

    Lauriat: what we're trying to do is center around the impact to
    user. Maybe on the restaurant page, it has heading structure,
    it's all text, but the bottom of the page there's a one pixel
    image for logging
    ... and that's missing alt text
    ... as far as the user experience goes, it has no impact on the
    user for figuring out what's on the menu/navigating the menu
    ... it doesn't prevent the user from getting information. If
    the user stumbles on the image they don't get the information
    but it doesn't prevent them from getting info from the page
    ... but if you have a similar case with one image with no alt
    text, but there was content, like the address of the restaurant
    in the image that's much different
    ... we need to come up the lists of use-cases and tasks that
    people would want to do and information the user would want to
    ... there should be some examples in the education and outreach
    documentation that we come up with
    ... If we go through the success criteria we have today and
    build a list of those that apply to one particular category of
    user need
    ... and then without rewriting them yet, look at them for a
    category and put them in a list, how would we build up a point
    rating system for each of them

    <scottcooley> what is the URL of the wiki?

    <Lauriat> Wiki link:

       [6] https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/silver/wiki/Main_Page

    <scottcooley> thank you

    Lauriat: If you need some things to get to the minimum and you
    don't have content to get you there, how does that work?
    ... for coming up with points. that will probably come from the
    exploration you're going to do. The "how does that work with
    future maintenance" we can talk about now
    ... we could have a method today that is very popular, but if
    something better comes out a year from now. Would we want to
    change the number of points a given method that already existed
    and score the new method in relation to what exists?
    ... would we want to change the scores needed to get certain
    ... this kind of brings us closer to how conformance applies to
    physical space
    ... if a buildling is old, the regulations changes, and in the
    future you need to renovate based on new regulations at some

    Jennison: What if there is a shopping flow. A site upgrades
    just the checkout flow. They make the checkout conform, but
    don't have budget to fix everything else.
    ... could they claim the other flows conform to WCAG AA 2.0 and
    the checkout flow conforms to Silver

    Lauriat: I don't think so. We're moving away from
    full-page/full-site structure of website and moving to use-case
    and overall use-case for conformance
    ... the checkout flow would just be one piece of a user story
    ... this kind of gets to LuisG's point of how do we guide
    organizations to defining the tasks

    Jennison: And some flows not be the high priority flows. I
    guess it's the same with WCAG. we're leaving it up to judgment
    whether they're claiming conformance
    ... and which flows are they prioritizing and how?

    Lauriat: A company could say "these top interactions flows"
    work for users. Similar to having "meets with exceptions" in

    johnkirkwood: I have some concerns. What happens when it comes
    to legal information. It doesn't have a lot of traffic, but it
    is important. It wouldn't meet a bar by traffic or user flow,
    but still important.

    Lauriat: As another example, if your web application has a
    setting that says "enable braille display" or "magnifier" the
    end user that would want to use that likely only hits that once

    <Lauriat> trackbot, end meeting

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

    [End of minutes]
Received on Tuesday, 18 December 2018 15:45:34 UTC

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