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Re: Minutes of last week's (Dec 2) HL7 ITS RDF Subgroup / W3C HCLS COI call -- Review of FHIR ontology approaches (cont.)

From: Lloyd McKenzie <lloyd@lmckenzie.com>
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2014 15:59:51 -0700
Message-ID: <CAJ860J+rPACiqsPcUWJX0=TyxWfoVGFsnjYZ+nyoFVM+-9dbbQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Vipul Kashyap <kashyap.vipul@gmail.com>
Cc: David Booth <david@dbooth.org>, w3c semweb HCLS <public-semweb-lifesci@w3.org>, HL7 ITS <its@lists.hl7.org>
>From a FHIR (or v2 or v3) perspective, the linkage will *have* to be by
code + code system.  That's what appears in the instance and the RDF
representations will need to be driven purely based on what appears in the
instances.  The code + code system can be used to infer the concept
represented by the code - with all of its associated properties and
relationships.  Essentially "all v2/v3/FHIR elements with a code = [SNOMED
Code X] and a code system of SNOMED_CT are specializations of the SNOMED
Concept X".

--------------------------------------
Lloyd McKenzie

+1-780-993-9501



Note: Unless explicitly stated otherwise, the opinions and positions
expressed in this e-mail do not necessarily reflect those of my clients nor
those of the organizations with whom I hold governance positions.

On Sat, Dec 20, 2014 at 3:33 PM, Vipul Kashyap <kashyap.vipul@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
>
>
> VK> Partially agree with you. Another reason for taking up RDF/OWL
> representation is to make these descriptions (business, clinical) user
> friendly. I have added this requirement to the wiki page.
>
> Then we have a different notion of "user friendly" :>  The RDF syntax will
> almost certainly be less friendly for consumption than the XML syntax.  And
> in the end, the users shouldn't be consuming any of the syntaxes directly -
> they'll be consuming interfaces that systems use to expose the content, not
> the syntax directly.
>
>
>
> VK> I think one of the key goals of a semantic representation is to make
> the content user friendly and also “executable” at the same time. Whereas
> it definitely doesn’t make sense to expose the underlying RDF/XML
> serializations to the business/clinical users, there has been work e.g.,
> triples, Manchester OWL syntax which can be leveraged to make the OWL
> expressions understandable to informatics users.
>
>
>
> I don't expect we'll see broad uptake of the RDF syntax.  It will remain a
> specialized syntax for those wishing to use SPARQL, make inferences, etc.
> That's a small fraction of the overall community.  However, if we build it
> into the reference implementations, it'll be straightforward for most
> servers to expose the RDF to those clients that actually need it.
>
>
>
> So, we should definitely enumerate some of the use cases and perhaps flesh
> them out – so that they can be used to motivate the requirements – e.g.,
> Clinical Decision Support, Quality Metrics, Clinical Trial Protocols, etc.
>
> Especially for folks who are not familiar with FHIR – the requirements
> focusing on the RDF syntax are rather opaque and the value for the broader
> community is not evident.
>
> VK> I am in agreement with your first approach. One approach is to model
> both FHIR Resources and Terminology Concepts as classes. For e.g.., we
> could model “Condition” as a class with “Diabetes” as a subclass with some
> kind of relationship (sameAs, subClassOf) between FHIR:Diabetes and
> Snomed:Diabetes, MedDRA:Diabetes, ICD11:Diabetes
>
> The relationship would be that the concept represented by Condition.code
> was a specialization of Snomed:Diabetes, etc. (though it's unlikely the
> name would be that user-friendly).  It certainly wouldn't be a link to the
> overall class.
>
>
>
> VK> I think one of the design choices we have to make is whether Snomed is
> a collection of codes or whether it’s better modeled as a set of classes
> with properties and relationships and perhaps instances as well.
>
> I understand that the HL7 efforts have historically looked at the
> Information Model and Terminology as two different artifacts that can be
> “bound” together – but viewing both Terminological concepts and Information
> Model
>
> Entities as classes provdes a common meta-model to facilitate the merge.
>
>
>
> Just my 2 cents.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> ---Vipul
>
>
>
>
>
> ---Vipul
>
>
>
> (Feel free to add your thoughts to the wiki page.)
>
>
>
>
>
> Lloyd
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------
> Lloyd McKenzie
>
> +1-780-993-9501
>
>
>
> Note: Unless explicitly stated otherwise, the opinions and positions
> expressed in this e-mail do not necessarily reflect those of my clients nor
> those of the organizations with whom I hold governance positions.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 2:59 PM, Vipul Kashyap <kashyap.vipul@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Good list, Lloyd. Would like to suggest some more additions (apologies if
> these have already been suggested).
>
>
>
> ·         Clearly articulate the value of the new RDF/RDFS/OWL
> representation over the current XML/JSON representation
>
> ·         Enablement of OWL/RDFS inference – so we could identify use
> cases that cannot be easily done based on the XML/JSON representation
>
> ·         A common OWL/RDFS representation for information model elements
> *and* medical terminology concepts.
>
>
>
> Thoughts. Suggestions?
>
>
>
> ---Vipul
>
>
>
> *From:* Lloyd McKenzie [mailto:lloyd@lmckenzie.com]
> *Sent:* Monday, December 08, 2014 1:36 PM
> *To:* David Booth
> *Cc:* w3c semweb HCLS; its@lists.hl7.org
> *Subject:* Re: Minutes of last week's (Dec 2) HL7 ITS RDF Subgroup / W3C
> HCLS COI call -- Review of FHIR ontology approaches (cont.)
>
>
>
> I think we need to define our objectives for the RDF representation.  Mine
> are as follows:
>
>
>
> 1. It must be possible to round-trip from XML/JSON through RDF
> representation
>
> * This includes retaining information about order of repeating elements
>
> * Needs to allow for extensions where-ever they can appear, including
> simple types (date, boolean, etc.)
>
> 2. We want to be able to represent instances as RDF and Profiles as
> OWL/RDFS
>
> 3. Syntax needs to be "safe" when dealing with modifier extensions
>
> 4. Syntax should support vocabulary bindings to code, Coding and
> CodeableConcept - including dealing with extensible value sets and
> multi-code system value sets
>
> 5. Syntax should enforce constraints that are representable in RDF (i.e.
> schema constraints, regular expressions, etc.)
>
> 6. In the RDFS/OWL, should expose at least minimal annotation information
> for display
>
>
>
>
>
> Lloyd
>
>
> --------------------------------------
> Lloyd McKenzie
>
> +1-780-993-9501
>
>
>
> Note: Unless explicitly stated otherwise, the opinions and positions
> expressed in this e-mail do not necessarily reflect those of my clients nor
> those of the organizations with whom I hold governance positions.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 11:11 AM, David Booth <david@dbooth.org> wrote:
>
> I'm so sorry I forgot to send these out last Tuesday, but here are draft
> minutes from our call, with Eric Prud'hommeaux reviewing his FHIR ontology
> approach:
> http://www.w3.org/2014/12/02-hcls-minutes.html
> and below in plain text.
>
> Also, as a reminder, tomorrow's call (Tuesday) will continue with Claude
> Nanjo reviewing his FHIR ontology approach.
>
> Thanks,
> David Booth
>    --------------------------------------------------------
>    [1]W3C
>
>       [1] http://www.w3.org/
>
>                                - DRAFT -
>
> Semantic Web Health Care and Life Sciences Interest Group Teleconference
>
> 02 Dec 2014
>
>    See also: [2]IRC log
>
>       [2] http://www.w3.org/2014/12/02-hcls-irc
>
> Attendees
>
>    Present
>           Bryn_Rhodes, Cati, Claude_Nanjo, David_Booth, EricP,
>           Guoqian, Hans_Cools, Ingeborg, Joshua_Phillips,
>           Kerstin_Forsberg, Marc_Twagirumukiza, Neda, Paul_Knapp,
>           TimW, Tony_Mallia, Charlie_Mead, egonw_(IRC_only?),
>           Scott_Marshall, Patricia, Rob_Hausam, Vassil_(IRC_only?)
>
>    Regrets
>    Chair
>           David Booth (and Paul Knapp)
>
>    Scribe
>           dbooth
>
> Contents
>
>      * [3]Topics
>          1. [4]Approve Minutes of previous meetings
>          2. [5]Action Review
>          3. [6]FHIR Ontology Review
>      * [7]Summary of Action Items
>      __________________________________________________________
>
>    <trackbot> Date: 02 December 2014
>
>    <ericP> trackbot, start meeting
>
>    <trackbot> Meeting: Semantic Web Health Care and Life Sciences
>    Interest Group Teleconference
>
>    <trackbot> Date: 02 December 2014
>
>    <ericP> oops
>
>    <TimW> TimW is from +1.919.767...
>
>    <RHausam> RHausam is 801.949.1556
>
>    <Claude> [8]https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/157514853
>
>       [8] https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/157514853
>
>    <Claude> Please join our GoToMeeting
>
> Approve Minutes of previous meetings
>
>    Nov 18:
>    [9]http://wiki.hl7.org/index.php?title=ITS_RDF_Concall_Minutes_
>    20141118
>
>       [9]
> http://wiki.hl7.org/index.php?title=ITS_RDF_Concall_Minutes_20141118
>
>    Nov 25:
>    [10]http://wiki.hl7.org/index.php?title=ITS_RDF_Concall_Minutes
>    _20141125
>
>      [10]
> http://wiki.hl7.org/index.php?title=ITS_RDF_Concall_Minutes_20141125
>
>    Nov 18 minutes unanimously approved.
>
>    Nov 25 minutes unanimously approved.
>
> Action Review
>
>    <scribe> ACTION: ericP to set up tracker [recorded in
>    [11]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-hcls-minutes.html#action01 --
>    PENDING
>
>      [11] http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-hcls-minutes.html#action01
>
>    <trackbot> Created ACTION-2 - Set up tracker [recorded in
>    [12]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-hcls-minutes.html#action01 --
>    pending [on Eric Prud'hommeaux - due 2014-12-09].
>
>      [12] http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-hcls-minutes.html#action01
>
>    <scribe> ACTION: Tony to find out more details about how iCat
>    handles ICD-11 ont and report back [recorded in
>    [13]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action01 --
>    PENDING
>
>      [13] http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action01
>
>    <trackbot> Error finding 'Tony'. You can review and register
>    nicknames at <[14]http://www.w3.org/2014/HCLS/track/users>.
>
>      [14] http://www.w3.org/2014/HCLS/track/users
>
>    <scribe> ACTION: Guoqian to figure out whether he can share URI
>    conventions for ICD-11 [recorded in
>    [15]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-hcls-minutes.html#action07 --
>    PENDING
>
>      [15] http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-hcls-minutes.html#action07
>
>    <trackbot> Created ACTION-3 - Figure out whether he can share
>    uri conventions for icd-11 [recorded in
>    [16]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-hcls-minutes.html#action07 --
>    pending [on Guoqian Jiang - due 2014-12-09].
>
>      [16] http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-hcls-minutes.html#action07
>
>    <Claude> For those who just joined IRC, we also have a
>    GoToMeeting at:
>
>    <Claude> [17]https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/157514853
>
>      [17] https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/157514853
>
>    <scribe> ACTION: Kerstin and Ingeborg to prepare a status and
>    future state ideas for PhUSE-FDA work [recorded in
>    [18]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action05 --
>    PENDING
>
>      [18] http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action05
>
>    <trackbot> Error finding 'Kerstin'. You can review and register
>    nicknames at <[19]http://www.w3.org/2014/HCLS/track/users>.
>
>      [19] http://www.w3.org/2014/HCLS/track/users
>
>    <scribe> ACTION: Eric to establish/make a wiki page for C-CDA
>    RDF representations work [recorded in
>    [20]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action06 --
>    PENDING
>
>      [20] http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action06
>
>    <trackbot> Created ACTION-4 - Establish/make a wiki page for
>    c-cda rdf representations work [recorded in
>    [21]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action06 --
>    pending [on Eric Prud'hommeaux - due 2014-12-09].
>
>      [21] http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action06
>
>    <scribe> ACTION: Eric and Joshua to report on C-CDA RDF
>    representations work plan [recorded in
>    [22]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action07 --
>    PENDING
>
>      [22] http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action07
>
>    <trackbot> Created ACTION-5 - And joshua to report on c-cda rdf
>    representations work plan [recorded in
>    [23]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action07 --
>    pending [on Eric Prud'hommeaux - due 2014-12-09].
>
>      [23] http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action07
>
>    Joshua: Sent email describing a use case. Will add to wiki
>    page.
>
>    <scribe> ACTION: Tony and Rob to report their plan on
>    High-level concept mapping to RDF work [recorded in
>    [24]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action08 --
>    PENDING
>
>      [24] http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action08
>
>    <trackbot> Error finding 'Tony'. You can review and register
>    nicknames at <[25]http://www.w3.org/2014/HCLS/track/users>.
>
>      [25] http://www.w3.org/2014/HCLS/track/users
>
>    <scribe> ACTION: Tony and all to decide on a wiki for Term Info
>    work [recorded in
>    [26]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action09] --
>    PENDING
>
>      [26] http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action09]
>
>    <trackbot> Error finding 'Tony'. You can review and register
>    nicknames at <[27]http://www.w3.org/2014/HCLS/track/users>.
>
>      [27] http://www.w3.org/2014/HCLS/track/users
>
>    <scribe> ACTION: Guoqian to figure out whether he can share URI
>    conventions for ICD-11 [recorded in
>    [28]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-hcls-minutes.html#action07]
>
>      [28] http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-hcls-minutes.html#action07]
>
>    <trackbot> Created ACTION-6 - Figure out whether he can share
>    uri conventions for icd-11 [recorded in
>    [29]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-hcls-minutes.html#action07]
>    [on Guoqian Jiang - due 2014-12-09].
>
>      [29] http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-hcls-minutes.html#action07]
>
>    <scribe> [PENDING]
>
> FHIR Ontology Review
>
>    <Claude> Please use GoToMeeting only for video
>
>    [30]https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/157514853
>
>      [30] https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/157514853
>
>    Access Code: 157-514-853
>
>    Eric's slides: ->
>    [31]http://www.w3.org/2014/Talks/1125-fhir-rdf-egp/ FHIR-RDF
>
>      [31] http://www.w3.org/2014/Talks/1125-fhir-rdf-egp/
>
>    Eric: Our goal was to let anything in FHIR XML be translated
>    into RDF.
>    ... We wrote something that read the XML definition files and
>    produced something that maps the XML to RDF.
>    ... Python code reads the json definition files and spits out
>    XML, being the parts that we need of the FHIR spec.
>    ... "subs" is what is allowed inside a FHIR resource.
>    ... effectively the attributes of a resource.
>    ... Then we embedded that in an XSLT script, and hand edited
>    the foot of it.
>    ... The stuff we wrote into the footer of the XSLT says that
>    for a particular construct in the XML instance data, there's
>    special handling, such as URLs for identifiers.
>
>    David: How does the fact that it is an atom feed affect the
>    interpretatinon of the XML?
>
>    Eric: It leaves some other graph stuff superimposed on it.
>
>    Marc: Re datatypes, you used FHIR value, but the value itself
>    looks like it is a string.
>    ... If it is a string, then reasoners cannot do much with it.
>
>    Eric: Datatype values are showing up as literals.
>
>    Marc: Another is that a date is just a string, not an xsd:date.
>    ... On slide 2
>
>    Eric: Ideally it should have the datatype stuck on the end of
>    it. There's a tension between having the datatype on the
>    fhir:value and having it on a blank node.
>    ... The natural RDF-ish way to do it would be using
>    xsd:datetime.
>    ... Need to decide which of these ways will be most palatable
>    to RDF folks versus native FHIR folks.
>    ... Sometimes these things are not just datetimes in FHIR. Need
>    to make it as simple as possible and no simpler.
>
>    Guoqian: Is a different URI being used for the namespaces? Will
>    it cause problems when you use SPARQL across different models?
>
>    Eric: I tested some of this. I stuck a bunch of these
>    namespaces together, and I believe we've addressed your
>    concern.
>
>    David: Is the datatype issue due to the fact that datatypes are
>    extensible in FHIR?
>
>    Eric: Maybe. RDF needs to be monotonic.
>
>    Paul: Modifying extensions can appear only in the roots of
>    classes (considering the complex type as a class)
>
>    Eric: The XSLT footer has the custom code for extensions.
>
>    Paul: We did that to limit what you need to examine, to find
>    out if there is a modifying extension.
>
>    Claude: I think you can have modifying extensions on the root
>    type and anything that is defined from the root type.
>
>    ISSUE: FHIR Modifying extensions and monotonicity
>
>    <trackbot> Created ISSUE-1 - Fhir modifying extensions and
>    monotonicity. Please complete additional details at
>    <[32]http://www.w3.org/2014/HCLS/track/issues/1/edit>.
>
>      [32] http://www.w3.org/2014/HCLS/track/issues/1/edit
>
>    Eric: Example here may not be up to date. Anyone know?
>
>    Paul: the dev site has DSTU 2.
>
>    Eric: Another script generates the ShEx definitions from the
>    FHIR spec.
>    ... and the ShEx is used to generate FHIR XML back again from
>    FHIR RDF.
>    ... Slide 7 is showing how to take C-CDA in RDF and producing
>    FHIR RDF.
>
>    Guoqian: The result prefix is fhir but should be patient.
>
>    Eric: Yes, you're right. That can be fixed in the ShEx.
>
>    Tony: Sort of verbatim translation. The difference is maybe
>    target audience style -- a style that is good for the general
>    tools used in RDF. Only difference is the end style of RDF.
>    ... Establishing closure between FHIR ontology and SNOMED-CT
>    would need to happen. Main difference is in the final RDF
>    style.
>
>    <pknapp> Zakim: Have to leave for another meeting, thx, great
>    work.
>
>    Eric: Will need to need to be a balance.
>    ... Once we have transliterated, what we map to our dream
>    ontology. May want to balance how much is wedged into the XSLT
>    and how much into the interpretive dance later.
>
>    Claude: Might want a low level FHIR ont and a higher level FHIR
>    ont both.
>
>    David: I kind of like the auto-generated aspect of this
>    approach.
>
>    <vassil> чуит
>
>    ADJOURNED
>
>    <vassil> quit
>
>    <ericP> [33]coding mapping example
>
>      [33]
> https://www.w3.org/wiki/HCLS/ClinicalObservationsInteroperability/FDATherapeuticAreaOntologies#codeAndSystemToIRI
>
>    <ericP> (for next week)
>
>    <vassil> exit
>
> Summary of Action Items
>
>    [PENDING] ACTION: Eric and Joshua to report on C-CDA RDF
>    representations work plan [recorded in
>    [34]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action07]
>    [PENDING] ACTION: Eric to establish/make a wiki page for C-CDA
>    RDF representations work [recorded in
>    [35]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action06]
>    [PENDING] ACTION: ericP to set up tracker [recorded in
>    [36]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-hcls-minutes.html#action01]
>    [PENDING] ACTION: Guoqian to figure out whether he can share
>    URI conventions for ICD-11 [recorded in
>    [37]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-hcls-minutes.html#action07]
>    [PENDING] ACTION: Kerstin and Ingeborg to prepare a status and
>    future state ideas for PhUSE-FDA work [recorded in
>    [38]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action05]
>    [PENDING] ACTION: Tony and all to decide on a wiki for Term
>    Info work [recorded in
>    [39]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action09]
>    [PENDING] ACTION: Tony and Rob to report their plan on
>    High-level concept mapping to RDF work [recorded in
>    [40]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action08]
>    [PENDING] ACTION: Tony to find out more details about how iCat
>    handles ICD-11 ont and report back [recorded in
>    [41]http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action01]
>
>      [34] http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action07
>      [35] http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action06
>      [36] http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-hcls-minutes.html#action01
>      [37] http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-hcls-minutes.html#action07
>      [38] http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action05
>      [39] http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action09
>      [40] http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action08
>      [41] http://www.w3.org/2014/11/18-hcls-minutes.html#action01
>
>    [End of minutes]
>      __________________________________________________________
>
>
>     Minutes formatted by David Booth's [42]scribe.perl version
>     1.140 ([43]CVS log)
>     $Date: 2014-12-02 17:30:25 $
>      __________________________________________________________
>
>      [42] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
>      [43] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
>
> Scribe.perl diagnostic output
>
>    [Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
> This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.140  of Date: 2014-11-06 18:16:30
> Check for newer version at [44]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/
> scribe/
>
>      [44] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/
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> Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)
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> No ScribeNick specified.  Guessing ScribeNick: dbooth
> Inferring Scribes: dbooth
> Default Present: DBooth, +1.919.767.aaaa, ericP, rhausam, TimW, Joshua_P
> hillips, +1.202.528.aabb, charlie, +1.469.226.aacc, Tony, Neda, patricia
> , Mark_Twagirumukiza, Kerstin_Forsberg, Cati, Kerstin, +1.801.368.aadd,
> +1.604.250.aaee, Bryn_Rhodes, +31.62.427.aaff, mscottm, Guoqian, +1.608.
> 310.aagg, vassil, +41.78.847.aahh, [IPcaller]
>
> WARNING: Replacing previous Present list. (Old list: Bryn_Rhodes, Cati,
> Claude_Nanjo, David_Booth, EricP, Guoqian, Hans_Cools, Ingeborg, Joshua_
> Phillips, Kerstin_Forsberg, Marc_Twagirumukiza, Neda, Paul_Knapp, TimW,
> Tony_Mallia, Charlie_Mead, egonw, (IRC, only?), Scott_Marshall, Patricia
> , Rob_Hausam, Vassil, (IRC, only?))
> Use 'Present+ ... ' if you meant to add people without replacing the lis
> t,
> such as: <dbooth> Present+ Bryn_Rhodes, Cati, Claude_Nanjo, David_Booth,
>  EricP, Guoqian, Hans_Cools, Ingeborg, Joshua_Phillips, Kerstin_Forsberg
> , Marc_Twagirumukiza, Neda, Paul_Knapp, TimW, Tony_Mallia, Charlie_Mead,
>  egonw_(IRC_only?), Scott_Marshall, Patricia, Rob_Hausam, Vassil_(IRC_on
> ly?)
>
> Present: Bryn_Rhodes Cati Claude_Nanjo David_Booth EricP Guoqian Hans_Co
> ols Ingeborg Joshua_Phillips Kerstin_Forsberg Marc_Twagirumukiza Neda Pa
> ul_Knapp TimW Tony_Mallia Charlie_Mead egonw_(IRC_only?) Scott_Marshall
> Patricia Rob_Hausam Vassil_(IRC_only?)
> Found Date: 02 Dec 2014
> Guessing minutes URL: [45]http://www.w3.org/2014/12/02-hcls-minutes.html
> People with action items: all eric ericp guoqian ingeborg joshua kerstin
>  rob tony
>
>      [45] http://www.w3.org/2014/12/02-hcls-minutes.html
>
>
>    [End of [46]scribe.perl diagnostic output]
>
>      [46] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
>
>
>
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Received on Saturday, 20 December 2014 23:00:41 UTC

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