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Re: An HL7 RIM navigation language based on SPARQL?

From: RebholzSchuhmann <d.rebholz.schuhmann@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2012 21:42:33 +0100
Message-ID: <506B51B9.3010502@gmail.com>
To: Michel Dumontier <michel.dumontier@gmail.com>
CC: Peter.Hendler@kp.org, me@jerven.eu, eric@w3.org, helena.deus@deri.org, kerstin.l.forsberg@gmail.com, LINMD.SIMON@mcrf.mfldclin.edu, meadch@mail.nih.gov, mscottmarshall@gmail.com, public-semweb-lifesci@w3.org, ratnesh.sahay@deri.org
Hi all,

only out of curiosity: why should a clinician read/write RDF and/or HL7 
RIM?  I guess, you are talking about a clinician working together with 
an IT engineer, who does what - somehow - the clinician wants.

Don't get me wrong: RDF and HL7 RIM is a great ting and bringing both 
together .. the better.

     -drs-

On 02/10/2012 19:13, Michel Dumontier wrote:
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 1:54 PM, <Peter.Hendler@kp.org 
> <mailto:Peter.Hendler@kp.org>> wrote:
>
>     It's because clinicians will balk at the URIs.  The DSL would have
>     the same logic exaclty but all resource names and URIs would have
>     to be replaced with obvious business names.
>     Clinicians complain if they don't see exactly what they want it
>     called.
>
>
> there's an easy way to address that - which is to query for and return 
> uri labels, provided you have the label annotations
>
> :someuri rdfs:label "default label" .
> :someuri skos:prefLabel "a preferred community label" .
> :someuri skos:altLabel "another preferred community label" .
> :someuri :mypreferredlabel "my community preferred label" .
>
> m.
>
>     How do I know?  I've been working on Kaiser's CMT (Convergent
>     Medical Terminology) system since 1995.  Our clinicians will not
>     settle for SNOMED preferred names, nor ICD names.  They want their
>     own familiar terms.  We have a local clinician interface term for
>     everything.  In the background we map to SNOMED.
>
>     You can get them to understand triplets, but you can't make them
>     look at Resource names or URIs.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>     *NOTICE TO RECIPIENT:* If you are not the intended recipient of
>     this e-mail, you are prohibited from sharing, copying, or
>     otherwise using or disclosing its contents.  If you have received
>     this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by
>     reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any
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>
>
>
>
>
>     *Jerven Bolleman <me@jerven.eu <mailto:me@jerven.eu>>*
>
>     10/02/2012 10:37 AM
>
>     	
>     To
>     	Peter Hendler/CA/KAIPERM@KAIPERM
>     cc
>     	meadch@mail.nih.gov <mailto:meadch@mail.nih.gov>, eric@w3.org
>     <mailto:eric@w3.org>, helena.deus@deri.org
>     <mailto:helena.deus@deri.org>, kerstin.l.forsberg@gmail.com
>     <mailto:kerstin.l.forsberg@gmail.com>,
>     LINMD.SIMON@mcrf.mfldclin.edu
>     <mailto:LINMD.SIMON@mcrf.mfldclin.edu>, mscottmarshall@gmail.com
>     <mailto:mscottmarshall@gmail.com>, public-semweb-lifesci@w3.org
>     <mailto:public-semweb-lifesci@w3.org>, ratnesh.sahay@deri.org
>     <mailto:ratnesh.sahay@deri.org>
>     Subject
>     	Re: An HL7 RIM navigation language based on SPARQL?
>
>
>
>     	
>
>
>
>
>
>     Hi All,
>
>     Is SPARQL to difficult to teach to clinicians? I personally think
>     its not. What is difficult to explain is the data model
>     (especially a HL7 compatible one.)
>
>     Explaining a simple select once they understand triples is easy.
>
>     I love_my work = simple sentence = subject predicate object
>     <_ch.linkedin.com/in/jervenbolleman_
>     <http://ch.linkedin.com/in/jervenbolleman>>
>     <_http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/love_>
>     <_http://beta.sparql.uniprot.org_
>     <http://beta.sparql.uniprot.org/>> = replace words by uri's
>
>     <_ch.linkedin.com/in/jervenbolleman_
>     <http://ch.linkedin.com/in/jervenbolleman>>
>     <_http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/love_> ?thingHeLoves =
>     uri's by a variable starting with a ?
>
>     Wrap in select
>
>     select
>     ?thingHeLoves
>     where
>     {
>     <_ch.linkedin.com/in/jervenbolleman_
>     <http://ch.linkedin.com/in/jervenbolleman>>
>     <_http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/love_> ?thingHeLoves
>     }
>     find
>     <_http://beta.sparql.uniprot.org_ <http://beta.sparql.uniprot.org/>>
>
>     This basic concept is easily explainable in an afternoon. You will
>     need at least as much time to introduce any DSL as well.
>     The problem remains the HL7 data model. If you can explain that to
>     anyone in an afternoon you are my hero ;) and your DSL will need
>     to fight that as well. In which case it would be better to spend
>     you time rewriting the HL7 data model into something that matches
>     a clinicians model of his world. You would need reasoning and/or
>     rules to do so.
>
>     The benefit of sparql will be the capability to work with excell
>     and or tab delimited files that the clinician already has. Using
>     for example bio-table and the SPARQL 1.1. service keyword.
>
>     Regards,
>     Jerven
>
>     PS. I couldn't find an URI to identify my wife so had to fudge the
>     example ;)
>     On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 7:15 PM, <_Peter.Hendler@kp.org_
>     <mailto:Peter.Hendler@kp.org>> wrote:
>     Mainly for Charlie and Eric but anyone who knows RIM.
>
>     There has been talk off and on for ever about a Domain Specific
>     Language for navigating RIM like graphs of data.  Seems to me
>     SPARQL can already do that.
>     But SPARQL is too much to teach clinicians.  So you could have a
>     RIM specific DSL that is like a RIMQL.  It could be nothing more
>     than a thin layer on top of SPARQL.
>
>     The clinician writes a RIMQL query, and it turns into SPARQL.
>      There's no reason you couldn't do that with HL7 FHIR either.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>     *
>     NOTICE TO RECIPIENT:* If you are not the intended recipient of
>     this e-mail, you are prohibited from sharing, copying, or
>     otherwise using or disclosing its contents.  If you have received
>     this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by
>     reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any
>     attachments without reading, forwarding or saving them.  Thank you.
>
>
>
>
>
>     -- 
>     Jerven Bolleman_
>     __me@jerven.eu_ <mailto:me@jerven.eu>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Michel Dumontier
> Associate Professor of Bioinformatics, Carleton University
> Chair, W3C Semantic Web for Health Care and the Life Sciences Interest 
> Group
> http://dumontierlab.com
>

-- 
D. Rebholz-Schuhmann - mailto:d.rebholz.schuhmann@gmail.com
Received on Tuesday, 2 October 2012 20:43:31 UTC

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