- From: Alan Rector <rector@cs.man.ac.uk>
- Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 07:49:12 +0100
- To: Chris Mungall <cjm@fruitfly.org>
- Cc: Phillip Lord <phillip.lord@newcastle.ac.uk>, Marijke Keet <keet@inf.unibz.it>, public-semweb-lifesci@w3.org
Chris On 18 May 2007, at 18:10, Chris Mungall wrote: > > I'm afraid I'm unclear how to state the OWL n-ary relation pattern > (http://www.w3.org/TR/swbp-n-aryRelations) where I really need it. > In all the examples given, the "lifted"[*] n-ary relation was never > truly a relation in the first place and always better modeled as a > class. It's kind of cheating. What if my n-ary relation is > transitive or if the 3rd argument is a temporal interval over which > the relation holds? > > I think the former is doable with property role chains. Updating > the n-ary relations note with this - and all the other omitted > details, such as how to re-represent domain/range, functional > properties, n-ary relations in restrictions etc - would take a lot > of work and would make it utterly terrifying to the naive user. > > Nevertheless the results are clunky and will need special tool > support[**] to avoid going insane. I'd love to see DLR or similar means worked into future versions of OWL or other standards, although I am not the one to comment on the logical/complexity issues. I certainly agree that re-expresssing relations as properties carries a modest penalty by being more verbose, but it is manageable. To take the example in question for some relation R, let's take temperature as an example. I shall use the subrelations "has_feature" / "has_state" to minimise arguments over what is, and is not a "quality" - an issue not germane to this discussion. Also I will use "has_state" as the property name so we don't have both a property "has_value" and a keyword VALUE. In the binary relation form in manchester simplfied syntax in OWL 1.0 we have: Organism has_feature SOME (Temperature_Feature THAT has_temporal_extent VALUE temporal_extent_1 AND has_state SOME (has_magnitude VALUE 37 AND has_units VALUE degrees_C)) where temporal_extent_1 is an individual which has facts has_start_time VALUE n AND has_end_time VALUE m. has_magnitude is a functional datatype property and has_units is a functional property. where n,m are date-time expressions, for simplicity let us assume integers representing milliseconds since some reference point. Inn OWL 1.1 we can do quite a bit better - although again there is a need for improved tools to make it easier. * An organism has a given temperature at some point in an interval anOrganism --> has_feature SOME (Temperature_feature THAT has_time_point SOME (has_coordinate SOME int[>=n, <m]) has_state... * An organism has a given temperature throughout an interval. (This has to be expressed as "Any temperature feature of the individual anOrganism in the time interval has the given state" Temperature_feature THAT is_had_by VALUE anOrganism AND has_time_point (Some has_coordinate SOME int[>=n, <m]) --> has_state... where is_time_point_of: inverse has_time_point has_time_point: functional Axiom: (Feature THAT has_time_point SOME Time_point) has_value Max 1 State. has_coordinate is used here with int since I am assuming it is measured in "ticks since basepoint", but could equally well be a float > Nevertheless the results are clunky and will need special tool > support[**] to avoid going insane. In general I am wary of design > pattern type things - they are usually a sign that the language > lacks the constructs required to express things unambiguously and > concisely. Separate "unambiguously" and "concisely". Whether or not there is something ambiguous about a design pattern depends on the case. In this case I think there is no ambiguity. "Concisely" is a matter for tools and layered "higher level languages". The history of computing is the history of "design patterns" at one level that eventually get built into "higher level languages" at the next level of abstraction up. No one would argue against layoring more convenient languages on top of OWL ( or its successors). The patterns are a first step towards this end, just as they were in the early days of programming languages. Neither would anyone argue against more expressive languages. But I would argue that building on known, tested, and proven semantics and computational methods is preferable to inventing new ones. I'd rather spend my time on improving tooling for something well-understood, standardised, and supported by a community of specialists than on trying to invent something new on my own that was likely to be none of these things. I'll invent when I have to - when I am convinced that the best available methods do not meet mission critical needs. But I take a lot of convincing, and even if convinced I will build out from the well understood foundations wherever possible, with just enough extra invention to do what is required. I speak from experience. I've done both. Regards Alan ----------------------- Alan Rector Professor of Medical Informatics School of Computer Science University of Manchester Manchester M13 9PL, UK TEL +44 (0) 161 275 6149/6188 FAX +44 (0) 161 275 6204 www.cs.man.ac.uk/mig www.clinical-esciences.org www.co-ode.org
Received on Monday, 21 May 2007 06:49:28 UTC