Re: Notation Question in the examples on SOSA/SSN

Hi Maxime,

would you be OK in splitting the examples into 2 sections, one by 
neutral ObsProps, a 2nd with FoI-Specific ObsProps?

Also - could you provide some text on the rational behind the 
FoI-Specific ObsProps? Think this would be valuable to guide users when 
which approach is more suitable.

The way it is now I find it quite confusing, for a while I had the 
impression that I'm doing things wrong by focusing on neutral ObsProps

:)

Kathi

On 04.10.2024 10:45, Maxime Lefrançois wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> I agree with promoting, by default, neutral ObsProps in examples
> A specific section could introduce FoI-Specific ObsProps and 
> motivatetheir existence through the corner cases (that are not so 
> uncommon, arguments are given in the related issue on github)
>
> Best regards,
> Maxime Lefrançois
> Associate Professor
> IMT - MINES Saint-Étienne - Institut Henri Fayol
> Member of Laboratoire LIMOS - UMR CNRS 6158
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *De: *"Grellet Sylvain" <S.Grellet@brgm.fr>
> *À: *"Nicholas Car" <nick@kurrawong.ai>, "Kathi Schleidt" 
> <kathi@datacove.eu>
> *Cc: *"Rob Atkinson" <ratkinson@ogc.org>, "Luís Moreira de Sousa" 
> <luis.moreira.de.sousa@tecnico.ulisboa.pt>, "Robert Warren" 
> <warren@glengarryag.com>, "SDW WG" <public-sdw-wg@w3.org>
> *Envoyé: *Vendredi 4 Octobre 2024 10:39:33
> *Objet: *RE: Notation Question in the examples on SOSA/SSN
>
> Bonjour everyone,
>
> I’d tend to favour « neutral ObsProps »
>
> I’m not saying that "FoI-Specific ObsProps" don’t exist , pretty sure 
> we can find edge cases.
>
> But promoting through example « "FoI-Specific ObsProps" » tend to bias 
> the re-user approach.
>
> One recent example here : in our national research infrastructure on 
> earth and its environnement someone starting to fill in the semantic 
> backbone did it on a pure thesaurus / keyword way starting from GCMD.
>
> That’s how we end having Nitrate as a narrower of OceanChemistry…
>
> As we all know Nitrate is not specific of the Ocean.
>
> Now, we have to disambiguate the whold thing…
>
> Favouring « neutral ObsProp » will help exchange observations accross 
> data silos.
>
> A bientôt
>
> Sylvain
>
> *De :*Nicholas Car <nick@kurrawong.ai>
> *Envoyé :* jeudi 3 octobre 2024 16:13
> *À :* Kathi Schleidt <kathi@datacove.eu>
> *Cc :* Rob Atkinson <ratkinson@ogc.org>; Luís Moreira de Sousa 
> <luis.moreira.de.sousa@tecnico.ulisboa.pt>; Robert Warren 
> <warren@glengarryag.com>; SDW WG <public-sdw-wg@w3.org>
> *Objet :* Re: Notation Question in the examples on SOSA/SSN
>
> Hi all,
>
> I am watching with interest to see what the consensus is regarding 
> "FoI-Specific ObsProps" or "neutral ObsProps".
>
> I'm happy to assist with RDF formulation of things if needed. I have a 
> lot of work going on at the moment involving biodiversity "parameters" 
> (ObsPros) such as those listed here, 
> http://linked.data.gov.au/def/tern-cv/5699eca7-9ef0-47a6-bcfb-9306e0e2b85e 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/linked.data.gov.au/def/tern-cv/5699eca7-9ef0-47a6-bcfb-9306e0e2b85e__;!!KbSiYrE!kjrzTfjEYnfPTXgno_xlYz38eMWobNFUSRctV0Pa43CT_c4yC8cCpgNdO4TjBaGvSAQnwlfFkOYLGzSiMw$>, 
> and I'd like to see how to mesh our current practice with the 
> canonical examples here.
>
> We now have a database of 70+ million observations of species 
> occurrence and multiple mullion secondary observations of properties 
> of the species (tree hight, specimen colour etc.) so plenty of 
> material to play with in line with the example pattern being 
> formulated here.
>
> Nick
>
> On Thursday, 3 October 2024 at 23:17, Kathi Schleidt 
> <kathi@datacove.eu> wrote:
>
>     Hi all,
>
>     based on the feedback received, I'll try and update all examples
>     to / in place of #
>
>     My next question is if we keep all the examples with the
>     FoI-Specific ObsProps, or if we adjust them to have neutral
>     ObsProps. Have we had any feedback from Maxime on this? To my
>     understanding, he's the proponent of the FoI-Specific ObsProps.
>
>     I'll try and evaluate the entire batch of examples to see if
>     anything is redundant (to my memory they're not), or if we'd need
>     any additional examples.
>
>     However, I'll need help in formulating them, as I'm not an RDF/TTL
>     expert, and simply don't have the resources to become one at present.
>
>     :)
>
>     Kathi
>
>     On 30.09.2024 23:41, Rob Atkinson wrote:
>
>         In addition to QC, the questions we need to answer are:
>
>         1. Are the examples we need in place in-line?
>
>         2. Are any examples in place not necessary and could be move
>         to appendix
>
>         3. Are the examples the best (specifically can we provide best
>         practice guidance for observed properties using property
>         descriptions of some sort (classes or SKOS - punning meaning
>         we could use a URI and have either or both)
>
>         4. Can the examples be cleaned and trimmed at all- e.g.
>         suppressing common namespace prefixes we define once - e.g.
>         https://github.com/w3c/sdw-sosa-ssn/issues/246
>         <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com/w3c/sdw-sosa-ssn/issues/246__;!!KbSiYrE!kjrzTfjEYnfPTXgno_xlYz38eMWobNFUSRctV0Pa43CT_c4yC8cCpgNdO4TjBaGvSAQnwlfFkOa0XnRZYQ$>
>
>         Note the validation of example files is now available at
>         https://opengeospatial.github.io/ogcapi-sosa/bblock/ogc.sosa.properties.spec-examples
>         <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/opengeospatial.github.io/ogcapi-sosa/bblock/ogc.sosa.properties.spec-examples__;!!KbSiYrE!kjrzTfjEYnfPTXgno_xlYz38eMWobNFUSRctV0Pa43CT_c4yC8cCpgNdO4TjBaGvSAQnwlfFkOZAEtK0hw$>
>         - and is one PR away from passing
>         https://github.com/w3c/sdw-sosa-ssn/pull/247
>         <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com/w3c/sdw-sosa-ssn/pull/247__;!!KbSiYrE!kjrzTfjEYnfPTXgno_xlYz38eMWobNFUSRctV0Pa43CT_c4yC8cCpgNdO4TjBaGvSAQnwlfFkOYg540G-g$>
>
>
>         *Rob Atkinson*
>
>         *Senior Research Engineer **| Open Geospatial Consortium (OGC)*
>
>         Mobile: +61 419 202973
>
>         ratkinson@ogc.org <mailto:ratkinson@ogc.org>| ogc.org
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>         @opengeospatial
>
>
>         *Sign up for OGC News*
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>
>         On Mon, Sep 30, 2024 at 7:26 PM Luís Moreira de Sousa
>         <luis.moreira.de.sousa@tecnico.ulisboa.pt> wrote:
>
>             Dear all,
>
>             on this topic there have been objective recommendations by
>             the W3C:
>             https://www.w3.org/TR/cooluris/#choosing
>             <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.w3.org/TR/cooluris/*choosing__;Iw!!KbSiYrE!kjrzTfjEYnfPTXgno_xlYz38eMWobNFUSRctV0Pa43CT_c4yC8cCpgNdO4TjBaGvSAQnwlfFkOaHQSVqkA$>
>
>             Hashes are fine in small graphs, like an ontology, but
>             complicate
>             matters in larger graphs. Moreover, the trend towards ReST
>             also
>             benefits the forward slashes.
>
>             Regards.
>
>             -- 
>             Luís Moreira de Sousa
>
>             INESC-ID
>             Instituto Superior Técnico
>             University of Lisbon
>
>             On Mon, 2024-09-30 at 18:53 +1000, Rob Atkinson wrote:
>             > Whilst all legal URI forms are valid, the inconsistency is
>             > unhelpful, and these particular examples are
>             idiosyncratic and
>             > inconsistent with the original O&M model of a GF_Property.
>             > SOSA is more agnostic, but real systems are going to
>             need to have an
>             > identifiable architecture pattern for properties. So can we
>             > decide which style of examples we need to show - and
>             push the others
>             > to a register of examples?
>             >
>             >
>             > Rob Atkinson
>             > Senior Research Engineer | Open Geospatial Consortium (OGC)
>             > Mobile: +61 419 202973
>             > ratkinson@ogc.org | ogc.org
>             <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/ogc.org__;!!KbSiYrE!kjrzTfjEYnfPTXgno_xlYz38eMWobNFUSRctV0Pa43CT_c4yC8cCpgNdO4TjBaGvSAQnwlfFkOZsNvXMQQ$>
>             | @opengeospatial
>             >
>             >
>             >
>             > Sign up for OGC News
>             >
>             >
>             > On Sat, Sep 28, 2024 at 12:11 AM Robert Warren
>             > <warren@glengarryag.com> wrote:
>             > > It strikes me as wrong. -rhw
>             > >
>             > > On Fri, Sept 27, 2024, 6:08 a.m. Kathi Schleidt
>             <kathi@datacove.eu>
>             > > wrote:
>             > > >
>             > > > Hi all,
>             > > > going through and analysing the examples for
>             SOSA/SSN, I've
>             > > > noticed two different notations, sometimes used
>             interchangeably.
>             > > > Has to with associations from a class, I see both
>             '/' and '#'
>             > > > being used, at times within the same example. See
>             C.4 Tree height
>             > > > measurement, where the ObsProp is tightly bound to
>             the FoI. Here
>             > > > we find both versions, e.g.:
>             > > > * <tree/124/height>
>             > > > * <tree/124#height>
>             > > > Does the # version convey some subtly of meaning
>             that I'm not
>             > > > aware of, or are these 2 syntax options just being used
>             > > > interchangeably? If they're the same, I'd be for using /
>             > > > everywhere
>             > > >
>             > > > :?
>             > > > Kathi
>             > > >
>             > > > On 24.09.2024 12:40, Simon Cox wrote:
>             > > >
>             > > >
>             > > > >
>             > > > > i.e. in 24 hours and 20 minutes time
>             > > > >
>             > > > >
>             > > > >
>             > > > >
>             > > > > Agenda and rolling notes
>             > > > > here:
>             https://docs.google.com/document/d/15TBmYhgRjncdd_bvmTKyg
>             <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/docs.google.com/document/d/15TBmYhgRjncdd_bvmTKyg__;!!KbSiYrE!kjrzTfjEYnfPTXgno_xlYz38eMWobNFUSRctV0Pa43CT_c4yC8cCpgNdO4TjBaGvSAQnwlfFkOaCvGpSDw$>
>             > > > > CD8aIhQo1-Tkg3eOKjYNTw/edit
>             > > > >
>             > > > >
>             > > > >
>             > > > >
>             > > > > Highlights:
>             > > > >
>             > > > > 1. Completion plan - Triage topics so we can
>             finish this
>             > > > > century
>             > > > > 2. Issues
>             > > > >
>             > > > >
>             > > > >
>             > > > >
>             > > > >
>             > > > >
>             > > > >
>             > > > >
>             > > > > Cheers - Simon
>             > > > >
>             > > > >
>             > > > > dr.shorthair@pm.me
>             > > > > https://github.com/dr-shorthair
>             <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com/dr-shorthair__;!!KbSiYrE!kjrzTfjEYnfPTXgno_xlYz38eMWobNFUSRctV0Pa43CT_c4yC8cCpgNdO4TjBaGvSAQnwlfFkOYtAAf2Kg$>
>
>             > > > >
>             > > > > +61 403 302 672
>             > > > >
>             > > > >
>             > > > > On Boonwurrung land
>             > > > >
>             > > > >
>             > > > >
>             > > > > Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
>             > > > >
>             > > > >
>             > > >
>
>     -- 
>
>     *Katharina Schleidt*
>
>     CEO, Data Modeler, Data Networking Expert
>
>     **
>
>      
>
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>     Kathi Schleidt
>
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>
>     www.DataCove.eu
>     <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.DataCove.eu__;!!KbSiYrE!kjrzTfjEYnfPTXgno_xlYz38eMWobNFUSRctV0Pa43CT_c4yC8cCpgNdO4TjBaGvSAQnwlfFkObgReT4Wg$>
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>      
>      
>      
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>      
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-- 

*Katharina Schleidt*

CEO, Data Modeler, Data Networking Expert

**

 

*DataCove e.U.*,
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1150 Vienna, Austria

 

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Received on Friday, 4 October 2024 11:21:33 UTC