- From: Antoine Zimmermann <antoine.zimmermann@emse.fr>
- Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2016 00:06:26 +0100
- To: janowicz@ucsb.edu, Armin Haller <armin.haller@anu.edu.au>, Krzysztof Janowicz <jano@geog.ucsb.edu>, Joshua Lieberman <jlieberman@tumblingwalls.com>, Simon Cox <Simon.Cox@csiro.au>, Kerry Taylor <kerry.taylor@anu.edu.au>
- CC: SDW WG Public List <public-sdw-wg@w3.org>
On 09/11/2016 23:46, Krzysztof Janowicz wrote: >> [...] >> -rdfs:domain and rdfs:range >> >> Please use these whenever relevant. [...]. You can't go wrong with them. > > This is the only part of your email where I would strongly disagree > (well, depending on what you mean by 'whenever relevant' :-)) for the > reasons we discussed here before and that others made when developing > other ontologies. This is not to say that using them is 'wrong' in some > sense but that they have to be handled with great care. On this, I know what you mean. I've read the arguments that were written at some point in the SSN draft. I know that it is wise to avoid systematic domains and ranges that could be too restrictive. But I think that this went too far with things like: :hasMeasurementCapability a owl:ObjectProperty . :MeasurementCapability a owl:Class . and no range for :hasMeasurementCapability. If, whenever I find: ?x :hasMeasurementCapability ?y . I cannot conclude that ?y is a :MeasurementCapability, then there is something really wrong in the name of the property! Or, alternatively there ought to be a rdfs:range axiom. --AZ > > Best, > Krzysztof > > > > On 11/09/2016 01:15 PM, Antoine Zimmermann wrote: >> On 09/11/2016 00:20, Armin Haller wrote: >>> Hi Krzysztof, >>> >>> Thanks for your detailed explanations below! >>> >>> Just to clarify, the intention in the meeting to go through a list of >>> what constructs should be in SOSA (as thankfully proposed by Josh) was >>> to be incremental. I was planning to incrementally go through the list >>> of constructs that are either already in our current SOSA proposal or >>> could be imagined to be in it and vote on them. Some, of course have >>> implications, if we decide on owl:inverseOf in our next meeting, we will >>> not be in RDFS entailment. >> >> I was not at the meeting, so I may have missed something, but what is >> the rationale for forbidding certain constructs? If there is an >> owl:inverseOf in the ontology, the RDFS reasoners won't care. Nobody >> who's not using/interested in owl:inverseOf will care. >> >> However, in the case of owl:inverseOf, I don't think it is a question >> of whether we want to use the construct or not. It is a question of >> deciding whether we allow ourselves to define both a property and its >> inverse. If we have properties like ex:hasChild and ex:hasParent, it >> would be silly not to make explicit the inverse relationship. If the >> decision is about not having both a property and its inverse, then the >> need to use or not owl:inverseOf is only an inevitable consequence of >> the other decision. >> >> >>> If we are already in OWL, then of course it would make sense to use >>> owl:Class, although we do not have to. Therefore, again a vote on >>> owl:Class thereafter. >> >> I don't see a reason not to. Not having owl:Class declaration has >> noticeable consequences. For instance, it always troubles me that >> Protégé cannot display the Dublin Core properties and classes. It also >> troubles me that the DC terms cannot be imported with standard >> owl:imports, because of the lack of owl class, owl properties >> declarations. >> >> >>> I can think of the following list to vote on in our next meeting, >>> incrementally. And we stopped at owl:inverseOf this meeting I just saw >>> in the minutes. >>> >>> -rdfs:class >> >> see above and related emails. >>> >>> -owl:inverseOf >> >> see above. >>> >>> -owl:AnnotationProperty >>> >>> - owl:ObjectProperty >> >> owl:AnnotationProperty, owl:ObjectProperty and owl:DatatypeProperty, >> like owl:Class, do not add expressiveness to the language. However, >> they help OWL tools figuring out what the terms are. >> >> FWIW, in OWL 2 RDF-based semantics, owl:ObjectProperty is equivalent >> to rdf:Property. owl:AnnotationProperty and owl:DatatypeProperty are >> both subClassOf rdf:Property. >> >>> >>> -owl:Class >> >> see above. >> >>> >>> -rdfs:domain and rdfs:range >> >> Please use these whenever relevant. When used with an atomic class, >> they are fully supported by RDFS, OWL 2 EL, OWL 2 QL, OWL 2 RL, OWL 2 >> DL, OWL 2 Full, ter Horst semantics, RDFS++. You can't go wrong with >> them. >> >>> >>> -rdfs:subClassOf >> >> Come on! Do we need to vote on this one? >> >>> >>> - owl:Restriction >> >> There are many forms of restrictions, each one should be considered >> individually. I don't see much reason to forbid ourselves to use any >> of them because anyone can just ignore those they don't like. However, >> they should be used sensibly because we should not prevent use cases >> that we have not foreseen. I'd prefer an ontology that has very little >> restrictions with precise documentation to prevent misusing the terms, >> rather than an overly restrictive one. Look at schema.org: painfully >> non-restrictive, delightfully useful. >> >> >> --AZ >> >>> >>> Please do think about these and if you think they should or should not >>> be in the core or if there is anything else we desperately would need. >>> >>> Kind regards, >>> Armin >>> >>> *From: *Krzysztof Janowicz <jano@geog.ucsb.edu> >>> *Date: *Wednesday, 9 November 2016 at 10:01 am >>> *To: *Joshua Lieberman <jlieberman@tumblingwalls.com>, Simon Cox >>> <Simon.Cox@csiro.au>, Kerry Taylor <kerry.taylor@anu.edu.au>, Armin >>> Haller <armin.haller@anu.edu.au> >>> *Cc: *SDW WG Public List <public-sdw-wg@w3.org> >>> *Subject: *rdfs:class versus owl:class in SOSA-Core >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Sorry for being so picky about this during our meeting but I do not want >>> us to take decisions that have consequences that we can not yet foresee. >>> >>> To the best of my knowledge (and please correct me if I am wrong): >>> >>> Under the semantics of OWL1, rdfs:class and owl:class are only >>> equivalent for OWL-Full. For OWL-DL (and OWL-Lite) owl:class is a >>> subclass of rdfs:class. >>> >>> This means that every valid document in OWL will be a valid document in >>> RDFS, however *not* every rdfs:class is an owl:class. I do not want us >>> to end up in OWL-Full because of this. >>> >>> For OWL2, I found this: 'owl:Class rdfs:subClassOf rdfs:Class . " >>> (https://www.w3.org/TR/owl2-rdf-based-semantics/). Things may be more >>> complicated here due to OWL2 punning and they may well turn out to be >>> equivalent, I will check this later. >>> >>> If we decide to restrict ourself to only using RDFS for SOSA-core, and I >>> am not in favor of this, then we may have to go with rdfs:class. >>> However, we have not yet taken this decision and have also not discussed >>> which axioms and language to use for SSN. As Sosa-core and SSN will be >>> aligned, this may have more consequences that we should consider. It >>> also seems like many of us are in favor of using inverseOf, so we would >>> be using OWL (and its formal semantics) anyway. Note that this does not >>> do any harm to an RDFS-only tool/user as for those the inverseOf axiom >>> will simply have no formal semantics. Still all other triples that use >>> both relations will still be just fine. >>> >>> Given the subclasssing, I do not see any problems using owl:class, but >>> we may accidentally end up in OWL-full or with being incompatible to the >>> standards if we opt for rdfs:class. Again, I am happy to be corrected. >>> At least, I do not see harm in simply using owl:class. >>> >>> Finally, and from very pragmatic point of view: ontologies that are >>> under very heavy use such as the DBpedia ontology simply use owl:class >>> and I have not yet seen any issues or complaints about that. See, for >>> example, http://dbpedia.org/ontology/City "dbo:City rdf:type >>> owl:Class ." The same is true for the goodrelations ontology and so >>> forth (but I admit that this is due to the more complex axiomatization >>> they use). >>> >>> I hope this will start a productive discussion. >>> >>> Thanks for reading, >>> >>> Krzysztof >>> >> > >
Received on Wednesday, 9 November 2016 23:07:06 UTC