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[Minutes] 2016-02-03

From: Phil Archer <phila@w3.org>
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2016 21:05:23 +0000
To: SDW WG Public List <public-sdw-wg@w3.org>
Message-ID: <56B26B93.3030507@w3.org>
As ever, the minutes of today's meeting are at
https://www.w3.org/2016/02/03-sdw-minutes

The black and white version is provided below.

           Spatial Data on the Web Working Group Teleconference

03 Feb 2016

    [2]Agenda

       [2] https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20160203

    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2016/02/03-sdw-irc

Attendees

    Present
           eparsons, Linda, ScottSimmons, RaulGarciaCastro,
           BartvanLeeuwen, frans, Lewis_John_McGibbney,
           ChrisLittle, ClausStadler, Payam, DanhLePhuoc, ahaller2,
           robin, MattPerry, phila

    Regrets
           Kerry, Simon, Jeremy, Lars, Clemens, Bill, Andrea,
           Andreas, Josh

    Chair
           eparsons

    Scribe
           linda

Contents

      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]F2F homework for next week
      __________________________________________________________

    <Lewis_John_McGibbney> Afternoon Folks,

    <Lewis_John_McGibbney> Can someone PM me the Webex login?

    <Lewis_John_McGibbney> Than kyou

    <eparsons> Hello Lewis_John_McGibbney

    <eparsons> It's the topic..

    <Lewis_John_McGibbney> Grand

    <eparsons> scribe: linda

    <ChrisLittle> +1 to Linda

    <frans> thank you Linda

    eparsons: may not be a full length call

    <eparsons> Topic : Approve last week's minutes

    <eparsons> Proposed : Approve last week's minutes

    <eparsons> [6]http://www.w3.org/2016/01/27-sdw-minutes

   http://www.w3.org/2016/01/27-sdw-minutes

    +1

    <Lewis_John_McGibbney> +1

    <RaulGarciaCastro> +1

    <ScottSimmons> +1

    <frans> +1

    <ClausStadler> +1

    <DanhLePhuoc> +1

    <ahaller2> +1

    <BartvanLeeuwen> +1

    <eparsons> Resolved : Approve last week's minutes

    <ChrisLittle> 0 not oresent

    <eparsons> Topic : Patent Call

    <robin_> +1

    <eparsons> [7]https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Patent_Call

       [7] https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Patent_Call

    <eparsons> Topic : FYI Joint call with DWBP 17th February

    eparsons: the next call after the f2f will be a joint call with
    the data on the web best practice group
    ... to deal with items in coordination with this group
    ... particularly the editors
    ... may prepare this in the f2f next week

    <eparsons> Topic : Review of SSN wiki pages

    <frans> good idea to link up!

    eparsons: Kerry has asked us to do this

    <eparsons>
    [8]https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/SSN_Wish_List

       [8] https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/SSN_Wish_List

    <frans> I am interested in SSN, to learn some more about the
    subject

    eparsons: this is a link to a brain dump by Kerry about the
    thing she expects to be part of the ssn deliverable
    ... lets work through this list and see if anything's missing

    <Payam> +1

    eparsons: anyone closer to the topic who wants to walk us
    through these?

    <Payam> +q

    <frans> Has anyone ever used SSN?

    Payam: i was involved in ssn work

    <KJanowicz> I was involved as well

    Payam: one of the key issues was the modularity of the
    ontology.
    ... we started creating modules, Simon knows a lot about this
    ... became a complex model
    ... we omitted multilanguage support

    <frans> Will the idea of SSN being an upper ontology remain
    intact?

    Payam: another thing we didn't do was create tools or libraries
    to transform CSV to SSN

    eparsons: KJanowicz has a comment

    KJanowicz: may jump in if I have comments

    Payam: ssn became popular but tools are lacking

    KJanowicz: originally semantic sensor network ontology, but
    also went into observation part.
    ... but missing is unit and type of measurement values

    Payam: correct
    ... the next item: probably actuation is meant. This is not
    supported by ssn but is requested. A group may have tried to do
    this.
    ... network structure: not clear what kerry means here
    ... ssn structure is device oriented, we never looked at human
    sensory data

    KJanowicz: ssn supports human sensors, but explicitly excludes
    this in the definition

    <Payam> correct

    eparsons: can you clarify?

    KJanowicz: for example, if I say it is raining, this is an
    observation

    <frans> So this is about humans using their own senses? Not
    humans carrying devices?

    eparsons: seems like a broader scope then. Any data/observation
    collected by any actor.

    ChrisLittle: I think it's good to have activation and
    actuation.

    <frans> Current definition of sensor seems not to exclude human
    senses:
    [9]https://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/ssn/ssnx/ssn#Sensor

       [9] https://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/ssn/ssnx/ssn#Sensor

    ChrisLittle: and about human observations: there are frameworks
    in which this can be very reliable information
    ... so am in favor of them being in scope
    ... and ogc standards support this, this could plug the gap in
    ssn

    KJanowicz: output of computer models can also be called
    observations

    [missed a bit]

    ahaller2: important to tackle this
    ... about the values: important to work together with the csv
    on the web WG.

    <KJanowicz> +1

    ahaller2: they also have a JSON encoding

    <Payam> ahaller2: it is important to work on actuation- WoT
    group also finds this important

    eparsons: good point. There is much more interest in this from
    a broader community now.

    ChrisLittle: csv for transmitting observations leads me to
    think about the difference between precision and accuracy which
    is sometimes ignored. Don't know how ssn addresses that.

    eparsons: broader than just ssn, would be good to have
    pointers.

    <frans> Precision and accuracy should be addressed in the data
    on the web context, I think

    Payam: systems platforms and deployment: details of this are
    not included in ssn
    ... e.g. what are the details of systems that should be
    specified?
    ... in ssn this is not specified, only some examples.
    ... validation: we have a validation tool but this could be
    made more formal.
    ... like HTML validators etc.
    ... ssn doesn't have a descriptive model for how to describe
    location.
    ... if sensing resources are mobile, it is unclear how to
    specifiy this
    ... ssn has some examples, but they are fragmented and not
    detailed.
    ... uncertainty: there is nothing in ssn to deal with trust,
    quality etc.
    ... IoT light might become a note; the idea is to have a simple
    version, ssn light, a compact version that would be useful to
    web of things WG.
    ... stories: linking to best practices, examples of where ssn
    is adopted.
    ... Ontology classes are described etc, but there is no How to
    get started with SSN tutorial. This would be helpful.
    ... Also nothing about reasoning with ssn. Examples would be
    useful.
    ... At the moment ssn is specified in RDF, it would be good to
    see if it can be specified in JSON(LD?)
    ... Also, looking at provenance.

    KJanowicz: ssn emerged on the linked data side. Viewed as
    records, while OGC views the values as events.
    ... If we take Dolce away my proposal would be not to talk
    about events at all.

    Payam: sampling features

    KJanowicz: in ssn there is not much about sampling strategies.

    Payam: that's it

    eparsons: any comments anyone?
    ... or a question: how realistic is delivering 70% of those
    wishes?

    <Payam> +q

    eparsons: seems to me like we need to prioritize them. And do
    some scoping.

    KJanowicz: unrealistic, we should focus on ssn light

    <Payam> agree- focusing on SSN-lite is a good idea

    eparsons: do you have a particular community in mind that would
    need ssn light?

    <Payam> +q

    <ahaller2> +1 for SSN-Lite

    <DanhLePhuoc> +q

    KJanowicz: e.g. big repositories of earth obeservation data,
    domain models

    BartvanLeeuwen: last time i wondered why this is on our
    charter. It's really a lot.
    ... we could say something about how you would encode location,
    this is close to our SDW BP work

    <eparsons> evening phil

    frans: we have a task force for ssn, what about bringing in
    outside people to help work on this?
    ... we are open to collaboration, right?

    eparsons: even with collaborators it's a lot of work. We should
    focus on the spatial aspects. But collaboration would
    absolutely be a good idea.

    <KJanowicz> we have a lot of expertise about SSN in this group

    ChrisLittle: guidance of what should be in ssn or not would be
    good - in relation to o&m.
    ... where's the overlap and what does ssn do that o&m doesn't?

    <KJanowicz> E.g., o&m is not about sensor networks

    eparsons: good point, could you add this to the wiki?

    <Payam> O&M is be also complex at times to describe the data;
    isn't also described in XML?

    there's a proposed json encoding just out, Payam

    <KJanowicz> o&m as such can also not directly used for
    semantically enabled Linked Data but there is a version from
    SCox that does.

    Payam: ssn is popular, if we could create a working model for
    data in ssn, this would increase the impact.

    <Lewis_John_McGibbney> I need to drop off early today folks.
    Thanks for the insight into SSN. I am still lacking context but
    this has helped a lot. I look forward to seeing more of this
    topic on list.

    Payam: e.g. location specification and measurement data and
    make it modular and extensible

    <eparsons> action ChrisLittle to add to wiki SSN vs. O&M
    illustration

    <trackbot> Created ACTION-134 - Add to wiki ssn vs. o&m
    illustration [on Chris Little - due 2016-02-10].

    DanhLePhuoc: I'm currently in Web of THings WG. We have a lot
    of industry parties that have sensor devices.
    ... they want interoperability and ssn is a candidate.
    ... problem is ssn is to big, ssn-lite is needed
    ... good modular version would be adopted 6 months ago
    ... internet of things needs spatial data

    <Payam> +q

    eparsons: for ssn-lite we would need to identify clearly what
    the target community is.

    KJanowicz: ssn is broader than o&m. The latter is not about
    sensor network etc.
    ... secondly, a lot of data does not require a lot of detail,
    often not entire ssn is needed, only a metadata record about
    the instrument, eg in oceanography.
    ... ssn lite would rule here too

    Payam: ssn can now not be used for annotating data

    <KJanowicz> I could not hear Payam

    ChrisLittle: I may be misunderstanding but there are a lot of
    standards on top of o&m that allow you to describe networks etc
    ... thats why scoping ssn is important

    <KJanowicz> There is a lot of voice

    <KJanowicz> noise

    ChrisLittle: in metereology and oceanography etc there are a
    lot of ontologies existing. A lot of work done.

    <eparsons> KJanowicz can you 1:1 with Payam

    <Payam> I said that SSN specifies abstract concepts and their
    relations; SSN-Lite should help to create SSN instances to
    describe sensors/data

    thanks payam

    <frans> Thanks, the SSN information was educational.

    eparsons: thanks for this useful discussion and ideas.

    <KJanowicz> ChrisLittle: yes, see
    [10]http://schema.geolink.org/

      [10] http://schema.geolink.org/

F2F homework for next week

    eparsons: one of the requirements is to continue work on the
    BP. For that we need examples!
    ... Bring examples to the f2f that can fit into the BP. There
    are slots for them already in the BP.
    ... Examples should be on the web; with a description why it is
    a best practice.
    ... Really helpful if we can get plenty of these.

    <Payam> +q

    phila: Can you prioritise? Try to match best practices with
    specific persons?

    frans: can we bring examples of not so good practices?

    <KJanowicz> +1 for the anti-patterns

    <ScottSimmons> must leave early, bye

    eparsons: absolutely

    <ChrisLittle> +1 to bad practice

    Payam: We editors discussed this. If someone has a model
    example, we can discuss this and gain concensus on how to
    specify the examples.
    ... during the meeting we can then assign tasks to specific
    persons.

    eparsons: what mechanism?

    Payam: email list
    ... we need to have 1 or 2 to start with, so we can decide what
    the form should be.

    eparsons: anyone who can contribute one before next week?

    BartvanLeeuwen: as narrative or as something I can show?

    <Payam> +q

    eparsons: not a huge narrative, something you can point at and
    a sentence describing it would be good

    BartvanLeeuwen: will see what I can do

    <eparsons> Topic : CEO-LD Report

    <phila> [11]CEO-LD Project

      [11] https://www.w3.org/2015/ceo-ld

    <eparsons> action BartvanLeeuwen Email Public List with example
    of BP as an initial example for F2F

    <trackbot> Error finding 'BartvanLeeuwen'. You can review and
    register nicknames at
    <[12]http://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/users>.

      [12] http://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/users

    phila: project funded by british embassy in Beijing. It's a
    specifically UK thing.
    ... idea is that they will contribute to Coverage work of this
    WG
    ... everyone involved in CEO-LD group is involved in this group
    as well.
    ... next meeting Sunday 28th february. Nothing has been done
    since September.
    ... Jon Blower has done cool work regarding this

    <phila> [13]Coverage Data REST API Core Specification

      [13] 
https://github.com/Reading-eScience-Centre/coverage-restapi/blob/master/spec.md

    phila: covers things we will be concerned about in this group
    when we work on this
    ... eg subsetting, how webby is it, etc
    ... if you're interested in coverages, look at this work
    ... see the Melodies project for this

    <eparsons> 2 minute warning !!!

    phila: chunks of this work could be useful also for our BP
    ... talks about JSON, content negotiation, and other stuff we
    could find useful. Thanks to Jeremy for pointing this out.

    <phila> [14]Mailing list

      [14] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ceo-ld/2016Feb

    phila: project is open to anyone to join the mailing list

    <BartvanLeeuwen> see you next week !

    <phila> Linda++

    KJanowicz: [missed that last bit]

    <KJanowicz> +1 for Linda

    <ChrisLittle> bye and thanks to Linda

    <KJanowicz> bye bye

    <Payam> thanks and bye

    eparsons: thanks everyone!

    <eparsons> bye !!

    bye!

    <frans> bye!

    [End of minutes]
      __________________________________________________________
Received on Wednesday, 3 February 2016 21:05:37 UTC

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