- From: Shiki Okasaka <shiki.okasaka@gmail.com>
- Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 17:52:33 +0900
- To: Dominique Hazael-Massieux <dom@w3.org>
- Cc: Cameron McCormack <cam@mcc.id.au>, plh@w3.org, public-script-coord <public-script-coord@w3.org>
> I know PLH has a tool that scrapes Web IDL fragments from a number of > specs; PLH, are the said Web IDL available somewhere? This could be a > good starting point for identifying which features might not make the x2 > criteria. FYI, we've been using the following perl script for some time: http://code.google.com/p/es-operating-system/source/browse/trunk/esidl/dom/idl_scraper.pl This script works fine with specs edited by Anne, Hixie, and a few others. - Shiki 2011/5/31 Dominique Hazael-Massieux <dom@w3.org>: > Hi Cameron, > > Le mardi 31 mai 2011 à 16:50 +1200, Cameron McCormack a écrit : >> We want to know if the specification’s requirements are appropriate for >> authors of other web platform specifications. We can see that there are >> a number of specifications that do use Web IDL, so that is some evidence >> that Web IDL is doing the right thing. That there are more than n >> specifications using Web IDL might be one criterion for progressing past >> CR. Should we also wait to see if there are more than n specifications >> using each feature from Web IDL? Some features are peculiar things that >> we don’t necessarily want more specifications using, and which we have >> only for the benefit of compatibility in HTML5. So I am not sure if >> “≥ n specs using feature X” is a good exit criterion. > > I think I would go for: > * by default, each feature of Web IDL needs to be present in at least 2 > specs > * except for features of Web IDL that are explicitly marked as legacy > artifacts in the spec, for which a single legacy reference would suffice > > This also ensures the Web IDL spec would clearly mark which features are > to be avoided :) > > I know PLH has a tool that scrapes Web IDL fragments from a number of > specs; PLH, are the said Web IDL available somewhere? This could be a > good starting point for identifying which features might not make the x2 > criteria. > >> Whether these other specifications write correct IDL fragments is >> another thing to look at, and something we can (and you do) test for. > > Yes, I think that as part of finding specs that use the various Web IDL > features, we should also ensure that they use them properly — and by > that I mean also beyond the syntax, ensuring that the semantics of the > fragments match the prose / perceived intent of the author. > >> We also want to know if the specification’s deep technical requirements >> are appropriate for implementors. If we want to restrict ourselves to >> looking at particular specifications (like Selectors API, DOM Core, or >> HTML5) then we can, assuming those other specifications are mature >> enough, test whether implementations of their IDL fragments are correct. >> So we might want to have an exit criterion being that we have at least n >> implementations of a particular Web IDL feature that is used in >> specification X. > > Yes, I think having 2 implementations of each Web IDL feature (legacy or > not) would be great. > >> I think it’s a bit strange to have Web IDL’s advancement tied to whether >> implementors will update their implementations of existing >> specifications to follow Web IDL’s requirements if there isn’t a >> specification that does recast that spec in Web IDL. > > Fair enough. > >> I wonder if the existing specifications that use Web IDL aren’t enough >> for us to use. > > If they cover enough of the required features, yes, I think that's > probably enough; we'll probably also want to have specs that are stable > enough (although of course we don't want to be trapped in an egg and > chicken problem where specs can't get stable because Web IDL isn't > finished, and Web IDL can't be finished because it needs stable specs.) > >> If we restrict ourselves to testing particular features of Web IDL (as >> used by other specifications), then I don’t think we need to have such a >> tool for our test suite. For example, if we took DOM Core as one of the >> specs we were testing with, then I don’t think the Web IDL test suite >> would need to test that the proprties for both Node::ELEMENT_NODE and >> Node::ATTRIBUTE_NODE cannot be written to. It’s this kind of repetition >> that this tool would help you with, though. >> >> I think the tool would be more useful to generate tests for the test >> suites of those other specifications. > > Probably, indeed. > >> … >> > 1. I pretty much think the Java binding should be moved out of the >> > main spec into a Note; it seems to me very unlikely that anyone will >> > spend the necessary effort to ensure that the Java bindings are >> > correct in the timeframe we want for Web IDL progression. >> >> That’s a good point. I wouldn’t want it to lose its normativity, >> though. If nobody is implementing web platform specifications with >> Java, then maybe it could be a separate specification that lived forever >> at CR, or at least until there sufficient implementations. (There are a >> few Apache projects that implement DOM and other related things in Java; >> they could count.) > > I guess I wouldn't mind keeping the Java binding on the Rec track for > the time being, and moving it to Rec or to Note depending on the > interest in the document. Should the split happen before Last Call, > though? > > Summarizing a possible action plan based on the discussion in this > thread: > * we need to identify all the features of Web IDL; I guess a good > starting point is the various syntactic keywords that it defines > * among them, we need to mark legacy ones > * we should start looking for specs that use the various identified > features of Web IDL, with a preference for the most mature/deployed > * we should write test cases that allows to verify the proper ECMAScript > binding of these features in the said specs > > Dom > > > > > >
Received on Tuesday, 31 May 2011 08:53:01 UTC