Re: HTML standard for scholarly publications ?

(copying Bjoern Brembs)
This used to be a technical problem.

It is now 100+% sociopolitical.

Simply:
The PublisherAcademicComplex *wants* publications to be 50 years behind the
edge of progress. They don't want XML (except internal). Some publishers
(MDPI, BMC, Hindawi...) used to display XML prominently on their websites.
No longer. There will be  widespread unspoken effective resistance to
ScholarlyHtml (mainly complete non-engagement).

Why?
<rant>
Publishers now don't sell publications. Their business model is:
* authors pay for prestige (glory)
* publishers run surveillance systems and sell or reuse user data

The current model (the Holy Version of Record PDF, VoR) works wonderfully.
 This is what authors are judged on. Since publishing is Rich North
anglophone sighted (mainly) men the current model must be kept.  The PDF is
its medium. It won't change in 20 years (and then climate change will
have destroyed complex society).
I use JATS-XML from EuropePMC. It could be a lot better but it works. Do
the publishers display it? Of course not. They have to retain their 500
own, 30-years-out-of-date sites for only one purpose. Publisher branding.
Readers don't care but they have to read these awful double-column rotated
tables because they have no option. Readers don't matter.

It isn't just academia. The world now accepts PDF as the holy way to
publish. It destroys scientific knowledge. For example the UN IPCC AR6
report on the future of this planet is 10,000 pages of PDF. In English. It
perpetuates Climate Injustice. We have a small group of (mainly Indian
undergraduates) developing tools to convert this to XML.
Total waste of time. Except it is so important to the world we have to do
it.
</rant>

P.



On Thu, Nov 24, 2022 at 10:38 PM Gareth Oakes <goakes@gpsl.co> wrote:

> We’re still pushing this idea along in a strategic sense. We’ve recently
> devised a lossless bidirectional transform between JATS and a
> ScholarlyHTML-like format to try and gain momentum. I think if anything
> ScholarlyHTML was too early, I’m certain its time will come.
>
>
>
> Perhaps the rise in ML and NLP solutions will help? Perhaps that will lead
> to a structured peer review process that simplifies and enables and
> end-to-end structured HTML workflow?
>
>
>
> -Gareth
>
>
>
> *From: *Kaveh <kaveh@rivervalleytechnologies.com>
> *Date: *Friday, 25 November 2022 at 07:03
> *To: *"Peter (pt) Sefton" <pt@ptsefton.com>
> *Cc: *"Morand, Robin" <robin.morand@szh.ch>, "public-scholarlyhtml@w3.org"
> <public-scholarlyhtml@w3.org>
> *Subject: *Re: HTML standard for scholarly publications ?
> *Resent from: *<public-scholarlyhtml@w3.org>
> *Resent date: *Friday, 25 November 2022 at 07:03
>
>
>
> Hi Peter
>
>
>
> I think you were in the group of my friend and colleague, Peter
> Murray-Rust, who pushed this excellent idea for many years. It is a shame
> that structured and semantic HTML is not more prevalent, and we have to use
> AI to guess at the contents!!
>
>
>
> We love structured content but keeping the structure in XML, with HTML
> pushed out as needed.
>
>
>
> Regards
> Kaveh
>
>
>
> On Thu, 24 Nov 2022 at 19:57, Peter (pt) Sefton <pt@ptsefton.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Robin,
>
>
>
> It's been a long time and this project is definitely abandoned at this
> point. There was another group who started using the term ScholarlyHTML and
> we handed the term over to them but I didn't keep track of it.
>
>
>
> Sorry I can't be of more help - please let us know how it goes, and maybe
> this can re-start the standards process?
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
> pt
>
>
>
> On Fri, 25 Nov 2022 at 04:01, Morand, Robin <robin.morand@szh.ch> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I recently discovered your repository on Github which explains the syntax
> for a scholarly article in HTML. I am in charge of the conversion of
> documents for our publishing services and I wanted to know if the standards
> you explain are still up to date? The last update of the respository was 7
> years ago so I'm wondering :-)
>
> If it is no longer up to date, would you have a reference to recommend to
> me?
>
> Best regards,
>
> Robin
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Peter Sefton +61410326955 pt@ptsefton.com http://ptsefton.com
> Gmail, Twitter & Skype name: ptsefton
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Kaveh Bazargan PhD
>
> Director
>
> River Valley Technologies <http://rivervalley.io> ● Twitter
> <https://twitter.com/rivervalley1000> ● LinkedIn
> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/bazargankaveh/> ● ORCID
> <https://orcid.org/0000-0002-1414-9098> ● @kaveh1000@mastodon.social
>
> *Accelerating the Communication of Research*
>


-- 
"I always retain copyright in my papers, and nothing in any contract I sign
with any publisher will override that fact. You should do the same".

Peter Murray-Rust
Reader Emeritus in Molecular Informatics
Yusuf Hamied Department of Chemistry
University of Cambridge
CB2 1EW, UK
+44-1223-336432