- From: Arnaud Sahuguet <arnaud.sahuguet@gmail.com>
- Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2024 20:26:12 -0400
- To: SvenPVoigt <svenpvoigt@gmail.com>
- Cc: paoladimaio10@googlemail.com, Richard Wallis <richard.wallis@dataliberate.com>, Ryan Levering <rrlevering@google.com>, Dan Brickley <danbri@google.com>, public-schemaorg@w3.org
- Message-ID: <CAJb-C87MyFGC=D8=sfupqvV+=bXV01pDoYCsrdbxxMcLf26snQ@mail.gmail.com>
Thank you Sven for the comments. I am not sure I fully understand all of them. Going back to the simple example I am starting from @prefix s: <http://schema.org/> . <https://www.nyc.gov/site/fdny/> a s:Organization ; s:sameAs <https://twitter.com/FDNY> ; s:sameAs <https://www.facebook.com/FDNY> . How would you improve it? Instead of s:sameAs, you would use s:url followed by the literal of the URL for the social media account? Arnaud On Thu, Apr 4, 2024 at 7:43 PM SvenPVoigt <svenpvoigt@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > > The schema:sameAs implies all the identifiers define the same object. If > one is meant to be the social media page and one the organization, then > that isn't the correct representation. You can make a complete distinction > between identifiers and locators or reuse identifiers in url literals. > > The solution it seems to me is to completely make a distinction between > identifiers and resource locators (uri vs url). There’s several places in > schema.org where this issue becomes a little confusing like with using > identifiers for images rather than url literals for where the image data is > located. Is the intended use for the image to be some identified resource? > Or should it be meant to be a pointer to the location where the data exists? > > If the different social media accounts absolutely have to also represent > the organization, note that you can reuse identifiers (such as those used > for the webpage, twitterhandle, etc) as url literals. Then you can create > an individual for the social media page and attach a property for the > location as a url literal. > > Note that you cannot assign the same identifier to the social media page > as that would imply the organization is also a social media page. But this > follows from having already used the social media page uri as the > identifier for the organization. > > Best, > Sven > > On Apr 4, 2024, at 2:51 PM, Paola Di Maio <paola.dimaio@gmail.com> wrote: > > > tempted to suggest: > add <persona> > > On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 10:58 PM Richard Wallis < > richard.wallis@dataliberate.com> wrote: > >> Using the *PropertyValue* pattern for *identifier *might work here. >> Especially if applied to a *ContactPoint*. >> >> @prefix s: <http://schema.org/> . >> >> >> <http://anorg.com> a s:Organization ; >> s:address "1 A Street, London" ; >> s:contactPoint [ >> a s:ContactPoint ; >> s:identifier [ >> a s:PropertyValue ; >> s:propertyID "Telegram ID" ; >> s:value "OrgTelID" >> ] ; >> s:name "Telegram Account" >> ] ; >> s:name "An Organization”. >> >> >> ~Richard >> >> >> >> >> On 3 Apr 2024 at 14:41:39, Ryan Levering <rrlevering@google.com> wrote: >> >>> Yeah, I guess technically that would be extra information on >>> the relationship between the Organization and the UserAccount, but >>> schema.org isn't that normalized usually. You could use Role (*small >>> shudder*). >>> >>> It would be totally fine to add more properties. I personally need the >>> type for creation/deletion dates/status on the accounts. There's just no >>> abstraction for the concept to hang any of these ideas. Maybe it could be >>> a description or category or something new. >>> >>> I was just using that URI as a local identifier. It could be a blank >>> node with just a provider that uniquely identified it. >>> >>> On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 9:31 AM Arnaud Sahuguet < >>> arnaud.sahuguet@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Thank you Ryan. >>>> >>>> Two comments: >>>> 1. FDNY has multiple Twitter accounts, e.g. general announcements, >>>> careers, etc. >>>> I would need UserAccount to have an extra property to define the >>>> purpose of the account. >>>> 2. For messaging apps like Signal, Telegram with no Web interface (as >>>> far as I know), there is no Web URI to use as an identifier. How would you >>>> solve the issue? >>>> >>>> Arnaud >>>> >>>> On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 9:26 AM Ryan Levering <rrlevering@google.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> My proposal is to have a UserAccount type that has edges to >>>>> Person/Organization: >>>>> https://github.com/schemaorg/schemaorg/issues/3403 >>>>> >>>>> @prefix s: <http://schema.org/> . >>>>> <https://www.nyc.gov/site/fdny/> a s:Organization ; >>>>> s:hasAccount <https://twitter.com/FDNY> ; >>>>> s:hasAccount <https://www.facebook.com/FDNY> . >>>>> >>>>> <https://twitter.com/FDNY> a s:UserAccount ; >>>>> s:name "FDNY" >>>>> s:provider <https://twitter.com> >>>>> >>>>> IMO, ContactPoint is not quite the right direction because it's >>>>> provider-agnostic (a phone number or email is thankfully a global >>>>> address). The UserAccount is only relevant in the context of the place >>>>> where the account is. >>>>> >>>>> But for your specific case, at Google we currently interpret sameAs in >>>>> the way you use in the example. That's the only way we have to represent >>>>> it in our systems. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 9:14 AM Arnaud Sahuguet < >>>>> arnaud.sahuguet@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Thank you, Dan. >>>>>> It is nice to cross paths again (we collaborated on >>>>>> https://schema.org/GovernmentService when I was at Google.org). >>>>>> >>>>>> Wikidata is going very deep with one property per social media >>>>>> "entity", e.g. https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P2397 for >>>>>> YouTube. This can open a can of worms: what defines a social media entity, >>>>>> who is worthy of such a property, why is my social media website not in the >>>>>> list, etc.? >>>>>> >>>>>> I am wearing my "civic data lenses", with a focus on city and >>>>>> government services. >>>>>> I would like to be able to list all their social media accounts and >>>>>> for what purpose they use them. >>>>>> >>>>>> I would argue that social media is a form of ContactPoint. The >>>>>> current version of ContactPoint was designed pre-social media. >>>>>> >>>>>> Supporting social media *and* messaging apps (e.g. signal, telegram, >>>>>> etc.) would be super relevant. >>>>>> >>>>>> 1. Most social media have a web interface: having a url should be >>>>>> enough and we get it for free from Thing. >>>>>> 2. For messaging apps, we need to capture the user handle/id but also >>>>>> the name of the app. >>>>>> Maybe having a new DigitalContactPoint schema (parent == >>>>>> ContactPoint ??) with a new property called userid to capture the >>>>>> user account. >>>>>> >>>>>> In the meantime, what would you recommend for my FDNY example? >>>>>> The issue I have with sameAs is that I cannot capture the fact that >>>>>> FDNY has multiple channels, one for casual announcements, one for critical >>>>>> announcements, etc. >>>>>> ContactPoint is a bit of an overkill and does not convey the fact >>>>>> that this is a social media account. >>>>>> >>>>>> regards, >>>>>> >>>>>> Arnaud >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 5:07 AM Dan Brickley <danbri@google.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> +Ryan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have discussed the idea of modeling accounts with Ryan (cc:d) from >>>>>>> time to time. It could be useful but as ever it is hard to know how deep to >>>>>>> go. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, 2 Apr 2024 at 22:04, Arnaud Sahuguet < >>>>>>> arnaud.sahuguet@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I am trying to represent the various media accounts using by New >>>>>>>> York City fire department. The list is at >>>>>>>> https://www.nyc.gov/site/fdny/connect/social-media/social-media.page >>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If I want to attach the Twitter/X account and Facebook account of >>>>>>>> FDNY, I could do >>>>>>>> @prefix s: <http://schema.org/> . >>>>>>>> <https://www.nyc.gov/site/fdny/> a s:Organization ; >>>>>>>> s:sameAs <https://twitter.com/FDNY> ; >>>>>>>> s:sameAs <https://www.facebook.com/FDNY> . >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Is there a better way that conveys the fact these accounts are >>>>>>>> social media accounts? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> regards, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Arnaud >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Arnaud Sahuguet >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Arnaud Sahuguet >>>> >>>> >> >> -- >> Richard Wallis >> Founder, Data Liberate >> http://dataliberate.com >> Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/richardwallis >> Twitter: @dataliberate @rjw >> >> -- Arnaud Sahuguet
Received on Friday, 5 April 2024 00:26:31 UTC