- From: Margaret Hagan <mdhagan@stanford.edu>
- Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 14:59:14 -0700
- To: Lucy Kind <kind@google.com>, Iebele Abel <iabel@iebele.nl>
- Cc: Dan Brickley <danbri@google.com>, Richard Wallis <richard.wallis@dataliberate.com>, Vicki Tardif <vtardif@google.com>, "schema.org Mailing List" <public-schemaorg@w3.org>, Metin Eskili <meskili@stanford.edu>, Guha <guha@google.com>, Stephen Hamilton <stephen@mettlepress.com.au>
- Message-ID: <etPan.5e9a26b8.707bf533.3e5c@stanford.edu>
This all looks good to me! Our team will be excited to use the new additions. Thank you!
On April 17, 2020 at 2:45:55 PM, Lucy Kind (kind@google.com) wrote:
I've obtained agreement to move forward from Vicki and Dan offline. I'll add those enums to the pull request and specs!
On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 2:47 PM Lucy Kind <kind@google.com> wrote:
Hi Lebele,
The current enum list began with only US and UK non-profit types, and our plan was to add more as they're needed. I'm happy to add in the NL non-profit types if that sounds good to Guha/Dan!
Thanks,
Lucy
On Thu, Apr 16, 2020 at 1:17 PM Iebele Abel <iabel@iebele.nl> wrote:
Hello Dan,
In The Netherlands we have two kinds of status: ANBI and SBBI. Translated, they stand for “public benefit organization“ and “social interest promoting institution” respectively. They both are “non profit” types of organizations; gifts to such organizations are tax deductible.
Could these be added to the “ NonprofitType” enum ?
-iebele
Op 16 apr. 2020 om 21:48 heeft Dan Brickley <danbri@google.com> het volgende geschreven:
I've added our Google colleague Lucy Kind to this thread.
Margaret et al., Lucy has taken a pass at codifying this for schema.org; the design is posted on the schema.org public Github repository:
https://github.com/schemaorg/schemaorg/issues/2543
We would like to move along with this quickly, so any comments you have (here, there or anywhere) would be much appreciated.
Dan
p.s. we've also just posted a version 7.04 update, https://twitter.com/danbri/status/1250870755237212161
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 22:51, Guha <guha@google.com> wrote:
+Dan Brickley
Yes, lets add this in the next release.
On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 2:35 PM Margaret Hagan <mdhagan@stanford.edu> wrote:
Hi everyone!
Just wanted to bump this up. Do you thin it might be possible to do a profitStatus addition?
Also — I have a few other questions on best practices for representing government or public interest services:
1. How to signal free? We are having some debates about whether we should describe an entire organization’s free services in one of these 3 ways:
Option A: “isAccessibleForFree”: true
Option B: “free”: true
Option C: “priceRange”: “free"
2. Can we make LegalService in a Service class, akin to a GovernmentService?
We want to designate the legal aid organizations as LegalService type, but that is currently classified as LocalBusiness. We would prefer a type that is a Service class, so that we can represent them akin to how government services are presented.
In particular, we want to be able to represent their individual offices (like Legal Aid of Hawaii’s offices on individual islands) as ServiceLocations [akin to example1 on this page, https://schema.org/ContactPoint, that has government services offered at different locations.
That example also has the availableChannel to describe specific clinics or hotlines for specific demographics. That is also one of our main needs in legal aid groups — to describe hotlines for housing questions, hotlines for Spanish-language speakers, clinics for elderly people, etc.
Thank you so much for your help. We really appreciate your assistance in moving this forward, so we can get widespread legal aid markup as soon as possible! Best, margaret
On March 25, 2020 at 8:28:13 AM, Guha (guha@google.com) wrote:
Yes, lets keep it moving ... there is going to be a lot of need for this kind of stuff
with the new relief programs
On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 8:20 AM Richard Wallis <richard.wallis@dataliberate.com> wrote:
Issue #246 seemed to get hung up on per country legal definitions and trying to identify specific subtypes of Organization..
May be still open to some interpretation, but this proposal seems to be more simple by adding a profitStatus property for both Organization and Service.
~Richard
On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 15:09, Vicki Tardif <vtardif@google.com> wrote:
Yes, we got hung up on non-profit status a few years ago in issue #246.
- Vicki
On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 2:01 AM Stephen Hamilton <stephen@mettlepress.com.au> wrote:
I agree with Richard, this is an important distinction.
Regards,
Stephen Hamilton
Sent from mobile device
On 24 Mar 2020, at 11:16 pm, Richard Wallis <richard.wallis@dataliberate.com> wrote:
A not for profit status is potentially useful property to convey.
However I believe there are two facets to this. There are indeed not for profit organisations, there are also not for profit services that are not necessarily only offered by such organisations.
Some for profit organisations offer charitable / pro bono / not for profit services alongside their commercial operations. I have even worked for a not for profit organisation that offered for profit services to help support its other operations..
To support such distinctions it would be appropriate to add the profitStatus property to both the Organization and Service types.
Richard Wallis
Founder, Data Liberate
http://dataliberate.com
Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/richardwallis
Twitter: @rjw
On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 19:47, Alan LaFrance <stidotorg@gmail.com> wrote:
Andrew,
Good points.
Can you think of some test cases that would challenge either of the methods? Perhaps we can work the problem backwards and arrive at a more robust solution.
Alan
On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 1:52 PM Andrew Crimer <andrew.crimer@gmail.com> wrote:
(forgot to cc the list)
---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Andrew Crimer <andrew.crimer@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: Public Interest legal aid markup
To: Margaret Hagan <mdhagan@stanford.edu>
A note on the complexity here: there are many types of corporation and they vary substantially by jurisdiction. "profitStatus" probably can't effectively be made binary. Incentives, i.e. "will never charge you money," are probably even more complicated. In the United States, IRC section 501c has 29 subsections, each with various additional cases attached. I'm not advocating for encoding the US tax code into schema, but I do think it bears mentioning that "for profit" and "not for profit" are both subject to change over time and extremely broad generalizations.
On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 2:44 PM Margaret Hagan <mdhagan@stanford.edu> wrote:
Hi!
I like the profitStatus property, because there are many non-profit organizations that do not primarily identify as an ‘NGO’ — but still want to communicate that they are non-commercial, public-interest, and will never charge you money/sell your data.
The ICNPO can be fine, though it’s definitely higher burden to do the classification than the profitStatus.
Thanks so much for your thoughts! Best, Margaret
On March 24, 2020 at 11:37:03 AM, Alan LaFrance (stidotorg@gmail.com) wrote:
Margaret,
I think this exposes a gap in the existing schema, as you mentioned.
I’d like to advocate for adding an optional property called profitStatus to Organization that notates the status of an org as “for profit” or “non profit.”
Alternatively, we could use ICNPO classifications as guidance for a more granular method. (See link below)
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/en/catalogue/13-015-X
Thoughts?
Thanks,
Alan LaFrance
On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 1:06 PM Margaret Hagan <mdhagan@stanford.edu> wrote:
Hi!
I’m working with various legal aid groups and other ‘public interest/non-profit’ legal groups on marking up their online resources.
I am running into a few limitations/areas for help.` If you have any thoughts, edits, reactions — I’d really appreciate it! Best, Margaret
1) Organization Type: Should we be tagging a non-profit legal information/services as an ‘NGO’ or as a ‘Legal Service’? The ideal is that we are communicating to the public that the sites are:
- public interest and free
- offering info + services related to legal problems
Ideally there would be another category like ‘Non-profit Legal Service’ or ‘Legal Aid’
2) Issue Expertise: What’s the best way to label the areas of law that a legal aid or free legal info site might help a person with? For example, to let people know they have help with domestic violence; child custody; landlord-tenant problems; migrant worker problems, etc?
Right now, we are using ‘knowsAbout’ and then linking to a URL with a taxonomy entry for that legal problem.
Has anyone used any other strategy for this?
3) Jurisdiction Coverage: Ideally we could label the organization and services very precisely with what cities, counties, or states their info/services apply to. For example, some of the housing law pages are only for certain cities, while some family/child custody are only for people in a certain state.
We are currently using Administrative Area and listing these different city/county/state units as text entries — but ideally we could be more precise than text. Has anyone used other strategies for communicating the jurisdictions that particular rules or services apply to?
--
For more detail, here are some of the sample drafts of markup that our groups are working on.
{
"@context": "http://www.schema.org",
"@type": "LegalService",
"name": "Idaho Legal Aid Services",
"url": "https://www.idaholegalaid.org/",
"description": "Idaho Legal Aid Services is a nonprofit
statewide law firm dedicated to providing equal access to justice
for low income people through quality advocacy and
education.",
"logo": "https://www.idaholegalaid.org/sites/idaholegalaid.org/files/ilas-logo-100.png",
"address": {
"@type": "PostalAddress",
"streetAddress": "1447 S. Tyrell Lane",
"addressLocality": "Boise",
"addressRegion": "ID",
"postalCode": 83706
},
"areaServed": [
{
"@type":
"AdministrativeArea",
"name": "Idaho"
}
],
"telephone": "208-746-7541",
"openingHours": [
"Mo 08:30-17:00",
"Tu 08:30-17:00",
"We 08:30-17:00",
"Th 08:30-17:00",
"Fr 08:30-17:00"
],
"isAccessibleForFree":
true,
"knowsAbout": [
"https://taxonomy.legal/term/HO-00-00-00-00",
"https://taxonomy.legal/term/FA-00-00-00-00",
"https://taxonomy.legal/term/IM-13-00-00-00",
"https://taxonomy.legal/term/BE-00-00-00-00",
"https://taxonomy.legal/term/MO-00-00-00-00",
"https://taxonomy.legal/term/NA-00-00-00-00",
“https://taxonomy.legal/term/BE-07-00-00-00”,
“https://taxonomy.legal/term/FA-15-00-00-00”
],
}
{
"@context": "http://www.schema.org",
"@type": "LegalService",
"name": "Legal Services of North Florida",
"url": "https://www.lsnf.org/",
"description": "LSNF is a not-for-profit legal services organization serving only low-income individuals and families in sixteen counties across Florida’s central and western panhandle. LSNF’s priority areas are cases involving Family Law, Housing, Public Benefits, Employment, Education, and Health Care issues. It does not help with traffic tickets, car injuries, or defending criminal actions.",
"logo": "https://www.lsnf.org/wp-content/themes/LSNFtheme/assets/images/Logo.png",
"alternateName": "LSNF",
"telephone": "(850) 385-9007",
"address": [
{
"@type": "PostalAddress",
"streetAddress": "2119 Delta Boulevard",
"addressLocality": "Tallahassee",
"addressRegion": "FL",
"postalCode": “32303”
},
]
"areaServed": [
{
"@type": "AdministrativeArea",
"name": "[“Bay County, FL”, “Calhoun County, FL”, “Escambia County, FL”, “Franklin County, FL”, “Gadsden County, FL”, “Gulf County, FL”, “Holmes County, FL”, “Jackson County, FL”, “Jefferson County, FL”, “Leon County, FL”, “Liberty County, FL”, “Okaloosa County, FL”, “Santa Rosa County, FL”, “Wakulla County, FL”, “Walton County, FL”, “Washington County, FL”]"
}
],
"isAccessibleForFree": true,
"openingHours": [
"Mo 09:00-17:00",
"Tu 09:00-17:00",
"We 09:00-17:00",
"Th 09:00-17:00",
"Fr 09:00-17:00"
],
"contactPoint": [
{ "@type": "ContactPoint",
"url": "https://floi.legalserver.org/modules/matter/extern_intake.php?pid=38&h=757e8c",
"contactType": "Online Intake",
"areaServed": "Florida"
},
]
"availableLanguage": [
{
"@type": "Language",
"name": "English",
"alternateName": "English"
}
]
"serviceLocation": [
{
“@type”: “LegalService”
“name” : “Legal Services of North Florida: Pensacola office”,
“telephone” : “(850) 432-8222”
“address”: {
"streetAddress": "118 South Baylen Street",
"addressLocality": "Pensacola",
"addressRegion": "FL",
"postalCode": 32502
}
},
{
“@type”: “LegalService”
“name” : “Legal Services of North Florida: Quincy Office”,
“telephone” : “(850) 875-9881”
“address”: {
"streetAddress": "121 North Jackson Street",
"addressLocality": "Quincy",
"addressRegion": "FL",
"postalCode": 32303
}
},
{
“@type”: “LegalService”
“name” : “Legal Services of North Florida: Ft. Walton Beach”,
“telephone” : “(850) 862-3279”
“address”: {
"streetAddress": "133 Staff Drive, NE",
"addressLocality": "Ft. Walton Beach",
"addressRegion": "FL",
"postalCode": 32548
}
},
{
“@type”: “LegalService”
“name” : “Legal Services of North Florida: Panama City office”,
“telephone” : “(850) 769-3581”
“address”: {
"@type": "PostalAddress",
"streetAddress": "211 East 11th Street",
"addressLocality": "Panama City",
"addressRegion": "FL",
"postalCode": 32401
}
},
{
“@type”: “LegalService”
“name” : “Legal Services of North Florida: Tallahassee office”,
“telephone” : “(850) 385-9007”
“address”: {
"@type": "PostalAddress",
"streetAddress": "2119 Delta Blvd.,
"addressLocality": "Tallahassee",
"addressRegion": "FL",
"postalCode": 32303”
}
}
]
}
{
"@context": "http://www.schema.org",
"@type": "LegalService",
"name": "Law Help NY",
"url": "https://www.lawhelpny.org/",
"description": "Access
to legal information and free legal help for New Yokers in need of
legal assistance.",
"image": "https://www.lawhelpny.org/files/B23B29BF-0DED-F7B9-2149-1DB14E1A7DE5/images/LHNY%203_20.png",
"logo": "https://www.lawhelpny.org/files/B23B29BF-0DED-F7B9-2149-1DB14E1A7DE5/images/LHNY%203_20.png",
"isAccessibleForFree": true,
"areaServed": [
{
"@type":
"AdministrativeArea",
"name": "New York"
}
],
"knowsAbout": [
"https://taxonomy.legal/term/DI-00-00-00-00",
"https://taxonomy.legal/term/FA-00-00-00-00",
"https://taxonomy.legal/term/CO-00-00-00-00",
"https://taxonomy.legal/term/HE-00-00-00-00",
"https://taxonomy.legal/term/BE-00-00-00-00",
"https://taxonomy.legal/term/HO-00-00-00-00",
"https://taxonomy.legal/term/WO-00-00-00-00",
"https://taxonomy.legal/term/MO-00-00-00-00",
"https://taxonomy.legal/term/ES-00-00-00-00",
"https://taxonomy.legal/term/GO-00-00-00-00",
"https://taxonomy.legal/term/VE-00-00-00-00",
"https://taxonomy.legal/term/RI-00-00-00-00"
],
"description": "Legal information for New Yorkers who
cannot afford an attorney.",
"availableLanguage": {
"@type": "Language",
"name": [
"English",
"Spanish",
"French",
"Korean",
"Russian",
"Polish",
"Vietnamese",
"Haitian; Haitian
Creole",
"Arabic",
"Italian",
"Tagalog"
]
},
"email": "info@nylawhelp.org"
}
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Received on Friday, 17 April 2020 22:00:01 UTC