- From: Alan LaFrance <stidotorg@gmail.com>
- Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 01:02:25 -0500
- To: Martin Hepp <mfhepp@gmail.com>
- Cc: David Elie Raymond Christophe Ammouial <david.elie.raymond.christophe.ammouial@everis.com>, Richard Wallis <richard.wallis@dataliberate.com>, Guha Guha <guha@google.com>, Margaret Hagan <mdhagan@stanford.edu>, "schema.org Mailing List" <public-schemaorg@w3.org>, Vicki Tardif <vtardif@google.com>, Stephen Hamilton <stephen@mettlepress.com.au>, Metin Eskili <meskili@stanford.edu>
- Message-ID: <CALdqMaTb3SZQSr4FdUS61XV_=9xJRSEHtW3s8kUZ1+x7RSrvuQ@mail.gmail.com>
I feel that this extends far beyond simple pricing.
Non-profits are a special status of company.
Thanks,
Alan LaFrance
On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 5:19 PM Martin Hepp <mfhepp@gmail.com> wrote:
> As always, I propose to use the same mechanism that the GoodRelations
> model uses for free products and services: Use a PriceSpecification with a
> value of zero USD/ EUR whatever.
>
> This ist much more flexible than a Boolean property, because it may be
> that a product or service is free only under some constraints, e.g.
>
> - free only during a certain period of time
> - free only up to a certain quantity per person
> - free only to to a certain audience
>
> etc.
>
> Offer has mechanisms in place to model all that.
>
> Now, may people think that this will blow up markup in comparison to a
> Boolean property, but there is an elegant way around that:
>
> Schema.org could pre-define instances of a free offer or zero price in
> the vocabulary, like so
>
> http://schema.org/ForFree
>
> schema:ForFree a schema:PriceSpecification;
> schema:price 0 .
>
> and in the RDF of the vocabulary, define it as an instance of
> http://schema.org/PriceSpecification
>
> foo:myOffer a schema:Offer ;
> schema:priceSpecification schema:ForFree ;
> ...
>
> If you want to avoid that developers have to model the Offer, you could
> even provide a predefined "Free Offer" value in schema.org.
>
> That trick will be invisible for Web developers who are marking up
> something, because schema:ForFree will be just a predefined value, like
> https://schema.org/EBook.
>
> But for someone querying the data for e.g. a service that costs less than
> 5 USD, the respective free service will still be returned.
>
> This is IMO much more elegant as having extra properties for "free"
> things; it does not break the GoodRelations model and still adds no extra
> weight to markup.
>
> Best wishes
> Martin Hepp
>
> -----------------------------------
> martin hepp http://www.heppnetz.de
> mfhepp@gmail.com
> @mfhepp
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 11. Apr 2020, at 23:01, David Elie Raymond Christophe Ammouial <
> david.elie.raymond.christophe.ammouial@everis.com> wrote:
> >
> > About the first point: what about price: 0?
> >
> > Regards
> > David
> > From: Margaret Hagan <mdhagan@stanford.edu>
> > Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 4:34:56 PM
> > To: Richard Wallis <richard.wallis@dataliberate.com>; Guha <
> guha@google.com>
> > Cc: schema.org Mailing List <public-schemaorg@w3.org>; Vicki Tardif <
> vtardif@google.com>; Stephen Hamilton <stephen@mettlepress.com.au>; Metin
> Eskili <meskili@stanford.edu>
> > Subject: Re: Public Interest legal aid markup
> >
> > Hi everyone!
> >
> > Just wanted to bump this up. Do you thin it might be possible to do a
> profitStatus addition?
> >
> >
> > Also — I have a few other questions on best practices for representing
> government or public interest services:
> >
> > 1. How to signal free? We are having some debates about whether we
> should describe an entire organization’s free services in one of these 3
> ways:
> >
> > Option A: “isAccessibleForFree”: true
> > Option B: “free”: true
> > Option C: “priceRange”: “free"
> >
> > 2. Can we make LegalService in a Service class, akin to a
> GovernmentService?
> > We want to designate the legal aid organizations as LegalService type,
> but that is currently classified as LocalBusiness. We would prefer a type
> that is a Service class, so that we can represent them akin to how
> government services are presented.
> >
> > In particular, we want to be able to represent their individual offices
> (like Legal Aid of Hawaii’s offices on individual islands) as
> ServiceLocations [akin to example1 on this page,
> https://schema.org/ContactPoint, that has government services offered at
> different locations.
> >
> > That example also has the availableChannel to describe specific clinics
> or hotlines for specific demographics. That is also one of our main needs
> in legal aid groups — to describe hotlines for housing questions, hotlines
> for Spanish-language speakers, clinics for elderly people, etc.
> >
> >
> > Thank you so much for your help. We really appreciate your assistance in
> moving this forward, so we can get widespread legal aid markup as soon as
> possible! Best, margaret
> >
> >
> >
> > On March 25, 2020 at 8:28:13 AM, Guha (guha@google.com) wrote:
> >
> >> Yes, lets keep it moving ... there is going to be a lot of need for
> this kind of stuff
> >> with the new relief programs
> >>
> >> On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 8:20 AM Richard Wallis <
> richard.wallis@dataliberate.com> wrote:
> >> Issue #246 seemed to get hung up on per country legal definitions and
> trying to identify specific subtypes of Organization..
> >>
> >> May be still open to some interpretation, but this proposal seems to be
> more simple by adding a profitStatus property for both Organization and
> Service.
> >>
> >> ~Richard
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 15:09, Vicki Tardif <vtardif@google.com> wrote:
> >> Yes, we got hung up on non-profit status a few years ago in issue #246.
> >>
> >> - Vicki
> >>
> >> On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 2:01 AM Stephen Hamilton <
> stephen@mettlepress.com.au> wrote:
> >> I agree with Richard, this is an important distinction.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Stephen Hamilton
> >>
> >> Sent from mobile device
> >>
> >>> On 24 Mar 2020, at 11:16 pm, Richard Wallis <
> richard.wallis@dataliberate.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> A not for profit status is potentially useful property to convey.
> >>>
> >>> However I believe there are two facets to this. There are indeed not
> for profit organisations, there are also not for profit services that are
> not necessarily only offered by such organisations.
> >>>
> >>> Some for profit organisations offer charitable / pro bono / not for
> profit services alongside their commercial operations. I have even worked
> for a not for profit organisation that offered for profit services to help
> support its other operations..
> >>>
> >>> To support such distinctions it would be appropriate to add the
> profitStatus property to both the Organization and Service types.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Richard Wallis
> >>> Founder, Data Liberate
> >>> http://dataliberate.com
> >>> Linkedin: http://www.linkedin.com/in/richardwallis
> >>> Twitter: @rjw
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 19:47, Alan LaFrance <stidotorg@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>> Andrew,
> >>>
> >>> Good points.
> >>>
> >>> Can you think of some test cases that would challenge either of the
> methods? Perhaps we can work the problem backwards and arrive at a more
> robust solution.
> >>>
> >>> Alan
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 1:52 PM Andrew Crimer <andrew.crimer@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>> (forgot to cc the list)
> >>>
> >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> >>> From: Andrew Crimer <andrew.crimer@gmail.com>
> >>> Date: Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 2:48 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: Public Interest legal aid markup
> >>> To: Margaret Hagan <mdhagan@stanford.edu>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> A note on the complexity here: there are many types of corporation and
> they vary substantially by jurisdiction. "profitStatus" probably can't
> effectively be made binary. Incentives, i.e. "will never charge you money,"
> are probably even more complicated. In the United States, IRC section 501c
> has 29 subsections, each with various additional cases attached. I'm not
> advocating for encoding the US tax code into schema, but I do think it
> bears mentioning that "for profit" and "not for profit" are both subject to
> change over time and extremely broad generalizations.
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 2:44 PM Margaret Hagan <mdhagan@stanford.edu>
> wrote:
> >>> Hi!
> >>>
> >>> I like the profitStatus property, because there are many non-profit
> organizations that do not primarily identify as an ‘NGO’ — but still want
> to communicate that they are non-commercial, public-interest, and will
> never charge you money/sell your data.
> >>>
> >>> The ICNPO can be fine, though it’s definitely higher burden to do the
> classification than the profitStatus.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks so much for your thoughts! Best, Margaret
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On March 24, 2020 at 11:37:03 AM, Alan LaFrance (stidotorg@gmail.com)
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Margaret,
> >>>>
> >>>> I think this exposes a gap in the existing schema, as you mentioned.
> >>>>
> >>>> I’d like to advocate for adding an optional property called
> profitStatus to Organization that notates the status of an org as “for
> profit” or “non profit.”
> >>>>
> >>>> Alternatively, we could use ICNPO classifications as guidance for a
> more granular method. (See link below)
> >>>>
> >>>> https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/en/catalogue/13-015-X
> >>>>
> >>>> Thoughts?
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>> Alan LaFrance
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 1:06 PM Margaret Hagan <mdhagan@stanford.edu>
> wrote:
> >>>> Hi!
> >>>>
> >>>> I’m working with various legal aid groups and other ‘public
> interest/non-profit’ legal groups on marking up their online resources.
> >>>>
> >>>> I am running into a few limitations/areas for help.` If you have any
> thoughts, edits, reactions — I’d really appreciate it! Best, Margaret
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> 1) Organization Type: Should we be tagging a non-profit legal
> information/services as an ‘NGO’ or as a ‘Legal Service’? The ideal is that
> we are communicating to the public that the sites are:
> >>>> - public interest and free
> >>>> - offering info + services related to legal problems
> >>>>
> >>>> Ideally there would be another category like ‘Non-profit Legal
> Service’ or ‘Legal Aid’
> >>>>
> >>>> 2) Issue Expertise: What’s the best way to label the areas of law
> that a legal aid or free legal info site might help a person with? For
> example, to let people know they have help with domestic violence; child
> custody; landlord-tenant problems; migrant worker problems, etc?
> >>>>
> >>>> Right now, we are using ‘knowsAbout’ and then linking to a URL with a
> taxonomy entry for that legal problem.
> >>>>
> >>>> Has anyone used any other strategy for this?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> 3) Jurisdiction Coverage: Ideally we could label the organization and
> services very precisely with what cities, counties, or states their
> info/services apply to. For example, some of the housing law pages are only
> for certain cities, while some family/child custody are only for people in
> a certain state.
> >>>>
> >>>> We are currently using Administrative Area and listing these
> different city/county/state units as text entries — but ideally we could be
> more precise than text. Has anyone used other strategies for communicating
> the jurisdictions that particular rules or services apply to?
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>>
> >>>> For more detail, here are some of the sample drafts of markup that
> our groups are working on.
> >>>>
> >>>> {
> >>>> "@context":
> >>>> "
> >>>> http://www.schema.org",
> >>>> "@type":
> >>>> "LegalService",
> >>>>
> >>>> "name":
> >>>> "Idaho Legal Aid Services",
> >>>>
> >>>> "url":
> >>>> "
> >>>> https://www.idaholegalaid.org/",
> >>>> "description":
> >>>> "Idaho Legal Aid Services is a nonprofit statewide law firm
> dedicated to providing equal access to justice for low income people
> through quality advocacy and education.",
> >>>>
> >>>> "logo":
> >>>> "
> >>>>
> https://www.idaholegalaid.org/sites/idaholegalaid.org/files/ilas-logo-100.png
> ",
> >>>> "address":
> >>>> {
> >>>>
> >>>> "@type":
> >>>> "PostalAddress",
> >>>>
> >>>> "streetAddress":
> >>>> "
> >>>> 1447 S. Tyrell Lane",
> >>>> "addressLocality":
> >>>> "Boise",
> >>>>
> >>>> "addressRegion":
> >>>> "ID",
> >>>>
> >>>> "postalCode":
> >>>> 83706
> >>>>
> >>>> },
> >>>> "areaServed":
> >>>> [
> >>>>
> >>>> {
> >>>> "@type":
> >>>> "AdministrativeArea",
> >>>>
> >>>> "name":
> >>>> "Idaho"
> >>>>
> >>>> }
> >>>> ],
> >>>> "telephone":
> >>>> "
> >>>> 208-746-7541",
> >>>> "openingHours":
> >>>> [
> >>>>
> >>>> "Mo
> >>>> 08:30-17:00",
> >>>>
> >>>> "Tu
> >>>> 08:30-17:00",
> >>>>
> >>>> "We
> >>>> 08:30-17:00",
> >>>>
> >>>> "Th
> >>>> 08:30-17:00",
> >>>>
> >>>> "Fr
> >>>> 08:30-17:00"
> >>>>
> >>>> ],
> >>>>
> >>>> "isAccessibleForFree":
> >>>> true,
> >>>>
> >>>> "knowsAbout":
> >>>> [
> >>>>
> >>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/HO-00-00-00-00",
> >>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/FA-00-00-00-00",
> >>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/IM-13-00-00-00",
> >>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/BE-00-00-00-00",
> >>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/MO-00-00-00-00",
> >>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/NA-00-00-00-00",
> >>>> “https://taxonomy.legal/term/BE-07-00-00-00”,
> >>>> “https://taxonomy.legal/term/FA-15-00-00-00”
> >>>> ],
> >>>> }
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> {
> >>>> "@context": "http://www.schema.org",
> >>>> "@type": "LegalService",
> >>>> "name": "Legal Services of North Florida",
> >>>> "url": "https://www.lsnf.org/",
> >>>> "description": "LSNF is a not-for-profit legal services
> organization serving only low-income individuals and families in sixteen
> counties across Florida’s central and western panhandle. LSNF’s priority
> areas are cases involving Family Law, Housing, Public Benefits, Employment,
> Education, and Health Care issues. It does not help with traffic tickets,
> car injuries, or defending criminal actions.",
> >>>> "logo": "
> https://www.lsnf.org/wp-content/themes/LSNFtheme/assets/images/Logo.png",
> >>>> "alternateName": "LSNF",
> >>>> "telephone": "(850) 385-9007",
> >>>> "address": [
> >>>> {
> >>>> "@type": "PostalAddress",
> >>>> "streetAddress": "2119 Delta Boulevard",
> >>>> "addressLocality": "Tallahassee",
> >>>> "addressRegion": "FL",
> >>>> "postalCode": “32303”
> >>>> },
> >>>> ]
> >>>>
> >>>> "areaServed": [
> >>>> {
> >>>> "@type": "AdministrativeArea",
> >>>> "name": "[“Bay County, FL”, “Calhoun County, FL”, “Escambia
> County, FL”, “Franklin County, FL”, “Gadsden County, FL”, “Gulf County,
> FL”, “Holmes County, FL”, “Jackson County, FL”, “Jefferson County, FL”,
> “Leon County, FL”, “Liberty County, FL”, “Okaloosa County, FL”, “Santa Rosa
> County, FL”, “Wakulla County, FL”, “Walton County, FL”, “Washington County,
> FL”]"
> >>>> }
> >>>> ],
> >>>>
> >>>> "isAccessibleForFree": true,
> >>>>
> >>>> "openingHours": [
> >>>> "Mo 09:00-17:00",
> >>>> "Tu 09:00-17:00",
> >>>> "We 09:00-17:00",
> >>>> "Th 09:00-17:00",
> >>>> "Fr 09:00-17:00"
> >>>> ],
> >>>>
> >>>> "contactPoint": [
> >>>> { "@type": "ContactPoint",
> >>>> "url": "
> https://floi.legalserver.org/modules/matter/extern_intake.php?pid=38&h=757e8c
> ",
> >>>> "contactType": "Online Intake",
> >>>> "areaServed": "Florida"
> >>>> },
> >>>> ]
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> "availableLanguage": [
> >>>> {
> >>>> "@type": "Language",
> >>>> "name": "English",
> >>>> "alternateName": "English"
> >>>> }
> >>>> ]
> >>>>
> >>>> "serviceLocation": [
> >>>> {
> >>>> “@type”: “LegalService”
> >>>> “name” : “Legal Services of North Florida: Pensacola office”,
> >>>> “telephone” : “(850) 432-8222”
> >>>> “address”: {
> >>>> "streetAddress": "118 South Baylen Street",
> >>>> "addressLocality": "Pensacola",
> >>>> "addressRegion": "FL",
> >>>> "postalCode": 32502
> >>>> }
> >>>> },
> >>>> {
> >>>> “@type”: “LegalService”
> >>>> “name” : “Legal Services of North Florida: Quincy Office”,
> >>>> “telephone” : “(850) 875-9881”
> >>>> “address”: {
> >>>> "streetAddress": "121 North Jackson Street",
> >>>> "addressLocality": "Quincy",
> >>>> "addressRegion": "FL",
> >>>> "postalCode": 32303
> >>>> }
> >>>> },
> >>>>
> >>>> {
> >>>> “@type”: “LegalService”
> >>>> “name” : “Legal Services of North Florida: Ft. Walton Beach”,
> >>>> “telephone” : “(850) 862-3279”
> >>>> “address”: {
> >>>> "streetAddress": "133 Staff Drive, NE",
> >>>> "addressLocality": "Ft. Walton Beach",
> >>>> "addressRegion": "FL",
> >>>> "postalCode": 32548
> >>>> }
> >>>> },
> >>>> {
> >>>> “@type”: “LegalService”
> >>>> “name” : “Legal Services of North Florida: Panama City office”,
> >>>> “telephone” : “(850) 769-3581”
> >>>> “address”: {
> >>>> "@type": "PostalAddress",
> >>>> "streetAddress": "211 East 11th Street",
> >>>> "addressLocality": "Panama City",
> >>>> "addressRegion": "FL",
> >>>> "postalCode": 32401
> >>>> }
> >>>> },
> >>>> {
> >>>> “@type”: “LegalService”
> >>>> “name” : “Legal Services of North Florida: Tallahassee office”,
> >>>> “telephone” : “(850) 385-9007”
> >>>> “address”: {
> >>>> "@type": "PostalAddress",
> >>>> "streetAddress": "2119 Delta Blvd.,
> >>>> "addressLocality": "Tallahassee",
> >>>> "addressRegion": "FL",
> >>>> "postalCode": 32303”
> >>>> }
> >>>> }
> >>>> ]
> >>>>
> >>>> }
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> {
> >>>> "@context":
> >>>> "
> >>>> http://www.schema.org",
> >>>> "@type":
> >>>> "LegalService",
> >>>>
> >>>> "name":
> >>>> "Law Help NY",
> >>>>
> >>>> "url":
> >>>> "
> >>>> https://www.lawhelpny.org/",
> >>>> "description":
> >>>> "
> >>>> Access
> >>>> to legal information and free legal help for New Yokers in need of
> legal assistance.
> >>>> ",
> >>>> "image":
> >>>> "
> >>>>
> https://www.lawhelpny.org/files/B23B29BF-0DED-F7B9-2149-1DB14E1A7DE5/images/LHNY%203_20.png
> ",
> >>>> "logo":
> >>>> "
> >>>>
> https://www.lawhelpny.org/files/B23B29BF-0DED-F7B9-2149-1DB14E1A7DE5/images/LHNY%203_20.png
> ",
> >>>> "isAccessibleForFree":
> >>>> true
> >>>> ,
> >>>> "areaServed":
> >>>> [
> >>>>
> >>>> {
> >>>> "@type":
> >>>> "AdministrativeArea",
> >>>>
> >>>> "name":
> >>>> "New York"
> >>>>
> >>>> }
> >>>> ],
> >>>> "knowsAbout":
> >>>> [
> >>>>
> >>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/DI-00-00-00-00",
> >>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/FA-00-00-00-00",
> >>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/CO-00-00-00-00",
> >>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/HE-00-00-00-00",
> >>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/BE-00-00-00-00",
> >>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/HO-00-00-00-00",
> >>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/WO-00-00-00-00",
> >>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/MO-00-00-00-00",
> >>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/ES-00-00-00-00",
> >>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/GO-00-00-00-00",
> >>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/VE-00-00-00-00",
> >>>> "https://taxonomy.legal/term/RI-00-00-00-00"
> >>>> ],
> >>>> "description":
> >>>> "Legal information for New Yorkers who cannot afford an attorney.",
> >>>>
> >>>> "availableLanguage":
> >>>> {
> >>>>
> >>>> "@type":
> >>>> "Language",
> >>>>
> >>>> "name":
> >>>> [
> >>>>
> >>>> "English",
> >>>> "Spanish",
> >>>> "French",
> >>>> "Korean",
> >>>> "Russian",
> >>>> "Polish",
> >>>> "Vietnamese",
> >>>> "Haitian;
> >>>> Haitian Creole",
> >>>>
> >>>> "Arabic",
> >>>> "Italian",
> >>>> "Tagalog"
> >>>> ]
> >>>> },
> >>>> "email":
> >>>> "
> >>>> info@nylawhelp.org"
> >>>> }
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> acrimer.com
> >>> schedule a call
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> acrimer.com
> >>> schedule a call
>
>
>
Received on Monday, 13 April 2020 06:02:52 UTC