Re: Vocabulary for Article

Dan, I chanced on this thread just now and was about to point out the new
journalistic-origin News subtypes added last year, when I saw your note.
Thanks.
Laura, for organizations engaged in journalism (which usually means they produce
News and the various variants of it), the new sub-types Dan pointed out were
added last year. ReportageNewsArticle, AnalysisNewsArticle, OpinionNewsArticle,
BackgroundNewsArticle, etc.
Objectivity apart, I feel Wiki articles have a unique genre-like aspect. Just to
randomly callout a few things that come to mind, they area) collaboratively
editedb) heavily based on primary and secondary source, and hence citationsc)
far less or zero-reliant on primary human sourcesd) have a source verification
process baked into editing, as claimed by Wikipedia folks, which I believe ande)
are live documents too, continually revised tracking the subject as it were.
I would start by mapping types of aspects semantically into current schema
properties in or under CreativeWork to find best matches if any. I assume you
did that and felt Article was coming close but also coming up short?
Dan - sorry to be shooting myself in the foot here, I know you'll be like, "here
goes Subbu again!". Might there be a case for discussing  ---
CreativeWork => Article => WikiArticle?orCreativeWork => WikiArticle?…..
One quick assertion and there will be objections to this, happily.Objectivity
isn't ever going to be an outflanking ideal in journalism. There will be those
aspirations in journalists, yes. Yet, what makes us human are our emotions,
feelings, biases (bad ones and good ones), and the ability to rise above these
in a self-aware sense to see alternatives - options, perspectives, points of
view, etc.
The very act of a news editor framing a headline, and a reporter selecting facts
to fit a narrative is inevitably subjective. Journalism is a kind of agency in
society that encapsulates all this, and the good and bad that seems to flow from
it.  It has rarely been held accountable in a standardized way, and hence the
need for transparency about a news organization's policies, sourcing, authors,
funders, where a kind of operational-objectivity becomes delivered to the user
if you will.…..  





On Mon, Aug 6, 2018 11:41 AM, Thad Guidry thadguidry@gmail.com  wrote:
Doh !  Thanks Vicki... cleaned up the Community Examples: 
https://github.com/schemaorg/schemaorg/wiki/Examples:Opinionated-Articles-(Op-Ed
)

On Mon, Aug 6, 2018 at 1:34 PM Vicki Tardif <vtardif@google.com> wrote:
There are a number of subtypes underhttps://schema.org/Article  and 
https://schema.org/NewsArticle  which would cover these cases.
- Vicki

On Mon, Aug 6, 2018 at 2:29 PM Thad Guidry <thadguidry@gmail.com> wrote:
Niels,
As far as Opinionated Articles, you can use https://schema.org/articleSection 
or just use https://schema.org/additionalType  and do the following, as many now
do:
{
"@context": "http://schema.org",
"@type": "Article",
"articleSection": {
"sameAs": "https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q2602337",
"@type": "Text",
"name": "Opinion Editorial"
},
"author": "John Doe",
"name": "How to Tie a Reef Knot"
}


{
"@context": "http://schema.org",
"@type": "Article",
"additionalType":"https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q2602337",
"author": "John Doe",
"name": "How to Tie a Reef Knot"
} 

Hope this helps,


On Mon, Aug 6, 2018 at 1:04 PM Thad Guidry <thadguidry@gmail.com> wrote:
We already have support for the following:
A dictionary term:  https://pending.schema.org/DefinedTermAn encyclopedia entry
(when referring to an entry in the context of within the pages of a book or
volume form) https://schema.org/Thing  or 
https://pending.schema.org/DefinedTerm
However, as now many encyclopedia are in online form, each Online Entry (
Articles written to describe a Thing or DefinedTerm) in an encyclopedia should
be considered an Article https://schema.org/Article  because that is in fact how
nearly all of them treat their entries now:
HTTPS://WWW.BRITANNICA.COM/TOPIC/UNITED-NATIONS
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/foreclosure
Where each Article can have an author, alternativeHeadline, articleBody,
pageStart, pageEnd, pagination, contributors, etc.
But as I said earlier, if I were writing a blog or article and wanted to mention
a particular entry in an book or volume form ecyclopedia, I would probably wrap
that with DefinedTerm and treat the book or volume form encyclopedia as a 
https://schema.org/CreativeWork  as well as probably a 
https://pending.schema.org/DefinedTermSet  

Hope this helps clarify a bit more,

On Mon, Aug 6, 2018 at 6:13 AM Michael Andrews <nextcontent01@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't see anything in the definition of Article to suggest an article must be
'objective'. Entire magazines are composed of commentary, which is perfectly
fine. Article covers all types, not just 'news'.  Even the definition of
NewsArticle allows interpretative content.
On Mon, Aug 6, 2018, 4:14 PM Niels <nielsl@xs4all.nl> wrote:

That is a goid question Laura. Wikipedia, and its predicesser nunpedia, are a
very special sort of project, aiming to be a collection of entries by anyone who
has sonething useful to add. Such thing already has a name. A wiki. I think it
may very well be debated is a wiki page should be seen as an article. I
personally dont think a wiki page is a type article. 

A normal encyclopidia has a publisher and a (number of) author(s). Such os much
closer to an article.


Hans Polak points out a newsarticle should not be confused with an opinated
article. News is unopiniated, objective. I agree with him. The issue is not with
calling such work an article, the issue is with the word news, which is these
days used for pretty much anything.

An article telling us that the cat whom has been stuck in a tree has finally
been resqued is news. It tells us something new, something we did not know yet,
as its main intent.
An article explaining how high cats can climb and from what hight they can
usually jump, is not news, but is backgroud.
An article telling us that the cat was stupid to climb in such a high tree is
not news, but is an opiniated article.

This is all quite obvious, but some news agencies seem to ignor these
distinctions, likely because news sells, and it sells better than bacground
stories or opinions. Calling it news sells better.
But dont let that push you away from the fact that news articles are objective
in nature, and for now you can mark up encyclopedia entries as newsarticle to
imply objective information.


"The fact that some newspapers taint their news coverage with their political
preferences is lamentable, but they're not per definition subjective."
They are not subjective,but they are opiniated. They are not simply factual
reporting of events. A distinction between an objective report and an opiniated
article should be made clear by the publisher. The vocab should at least
accomodate the posibility of making that distinction.

I hope the vocab can be extended to make a seperate type available for wiki's.

As for the word news being abused, that is a debate society is finally about to
have, now that the term fake news has come about. We will probably start seeing
news agencies reinventing the name of the articles they sell to distinct
themselfs from less objective compeditors. This is an issue much bigger than
just the schema.org  vocab.

What we could do in schema.org  is adjust the description of news article, to
very clearly state that with newsarticle wemean an objective reporting of news.
If it is not objective, it should be marked as opiniated article instead. That
way it is atleast made very clear to anyone using the vocab that marking
opinated articles as news is faulty use of the vocab.

Hope that helps.
Kind regards,
Niels Lancel



On August 6, 2018 11:36:02 AM GMT+02:00, Hans Polak <info@polak.es> wrote:  Good
morning,

I'd say that (ideally) newspaper articles are objective. Opinion pieces are not
newspaper articles.

The fact that some newspapers taint their news coverage with their political
preferences is lamentable, but they're not per definition subjective.

On the other hand, adding "encyclopedic entries" to the description is an
excellent idea.

Cheers,
Hans

On 06/08/18 07:31, Laura Morales wrote:
"Article" is defined as "An article, such as a news article or piece of investigative report. Newspapers and magazines have articles of many different types and this is intended to cover them all."

Would this be appropriate to identify articles such as encyclopedic entries? For example a Wikipedia article? The current definition seems to suggest that an article is some kind of work with a subjective point of view, for example a newspaper or magazine article. What can I use instead to identify an article which is objective and does not contain personal opinions, for example an encyclopedia's article?




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