Re: validThrough and validUntil

yes, by definition (in GoodRelations), the point in time (if such exists) specified is included. Note that you can use full datetime literals including fractions of a second if needed.

---------------------------------------
martin hepp
www:  http://www.heppnetz.de/
email: mhepp@computer.org


> Am 07.08.2018 um 17:40 schrieb Phil Barker <phil.barker@pjjk.co.uk>:
> 
> Agreed. Does validThrough mean that the item is valid on the date provided?
> Phil
> 
>> On 07/08/18 16:31, Martin Hepp wrote:
>> Hi all:
>> 
>> I am all fine with consolidations, but have a strong preference to keeping validFrom and validThrough the canonical ones, and consolidate, if this is agreen, **to these properties**. validFrom and validThrough are essential in many e-commerce scenarios, like seasonal offers, seasonal pricing, opening hours etc.; if you want to replace or rename one of these two, you will have to make sure that all examples and applications using these will be updated accordingly. validThrough is even more important, because afaik it is also used by major search engines to filter out expired offers and expired price information (which are two different animals), and many shop extensions and proprietary code uses these properties.
>> 
>> 
>> Just my 2 cents.
>> Best wishes
>> Martin
>> -----------------------------------
>> martin hepp  http://www.heppnetz.de
>> mhepp@computer.org          @mfhepp
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>>> On 07 Aug 2018, at 17:14, Phil Barker <phil.barker@pjjk.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Perhaps prematurely, I opened an issue about this earlier https://github.com/schemaorg/schemaorg/issues/2030
>>>> If the difference is that Through is inclusive and Until is not then, (a) that should be in the definition, and (b) the two properties should be attached to the same schema.org types (as Michael says).
>>>> 
>>>> Phil
>>>> 
>>>> On 07/08/18 15:47, Michael Andrews wrote:
>>>> I agree that different parties use these terminal dates differently in various contexts.  It matters especially with month-defined dates.  
>>>> 
>>>> When does my credit card expire?  At the end of the month, or the beginning?  "Expiry date" is rather vague. 
>>>> 
>>>> I would personally like only one property for consistency, but the reality of usage in practice is that both kinds are utilized.  So both should be global properties (not just one for Permits).
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 7:34 PM, Thad Guidry <thadguidry@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I strongly feel we should keep both.
>>>> 
>>>> The reasoning behind this is that the data could be inclusive or exclusive of a Day if the Time component is not provided.  Governments and business might use either form, and its useful to know if something will cease being valid at the end of a day (validThrough) or at the beginning of a new day or some end time (validUntil).  I deal with this kind of distinction daily and I already have buckets for both forms in my workflows.  Knowing to send a message at the beginning of a day or towards the end for Contract renewal purposes.  Speaking of which, Contracts take both forms as well, and we haven't put work into Contracts much yet, so even more reason to keep both.  Insurance is another domain where processors are very picky with clarity of something being validUntil (I've seen Insurance contracts specify the validUntil using the last second in an hour for exactness).
>>>> -- 
>>>> 
>>>> Thad
>>>> +ThadGuidry
>>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Phil Barker. http://people.pjjk.net/phil
>>> PJJK Limited: technology to enhance learning; information systems for education.
>>> CETIS LLP: a cooperative consultancy for innovation in education technology.
>>> 
>>> PJJK Limited is registered in Scotland as a private limited company, number SC569282.
>>> CETIS is a co-operative limited liability partnership, registered in England number OC399090
>>> 
> 
> -- 
> Phil Barker. http://people.pjjk.net/phil
> PJJK Limited: technology to enhance learning; information systems for education.
> CETIS LLP: a cooperative consultancy for innovation in education technology.
> 
> PJJK Limited is registered in Scotland as a private limited company, number SC569282.
> CETIS is a co-operative limited liability partnership, registered in England number OC399090