- From: Jim Saiya <jsaiya@formatdata.com>
- Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2017 12:12:08 -0500
- To: mdhagan@stanford.edu, public-schemaorg@w3.org
- CC: duff@duff-johnson.com, timothy.holborn@gmail.com, thomas.francart@sparna.fr, owen.ambur@verizon.net
- Message-Id: <201701251712.v0PHC8sk018547@mail109c38.carrierzone.com>
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<div class="userStyles" style=" font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #000000;">Margaret,<br />
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If you're not already familiar with it, I think you will be interested in https://openreferral.org/.<br />
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I wish I had seen this thread earlier! Good luck with your efforts.<br />
<footer class="signatureContainer"><font size="3"><b>Jim Saiya</b></font><br />
XML Analyst Developer<br />
Detroit, MI<br />
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✉ <a href="mailto:jsaiya@formatdata.com">jsaiya@formatdata.com</a><br />
<font size="1">[in]</font> <a href="www.linkedin.com/in/jimsaiya">www.linkedin.com/in/jimsaiya</a></footer>
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<i>On Mon, 21 Nov 2016 14:16:15 -0800, Margaret Hagan <mdhagan@stanford.edu> wrote:</mdhagan@stanford.edu></i></div>
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<div id="bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color: rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;">If anyone on the mailing list might be interested in collaborating with my Stanford team on drafting a Legal Schema extension, building upon the other schema that focus on legislation, on legal documents, and on social services — please be in touch!</div>
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<div id="bloop_customfont" style="font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color: rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;">We would appreciate any help or input from people who have previously worked on drafting <a href="http://schema.org">schema.org</a> markup. Thank you! </div>
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<p class="airmail_on">On November 14, 2016 at 12:20:21 PM, Owen Ambur (<a href="mailto:owen.ambur@verizon.net">owen.ambur@verizon.net</a>) wrote:</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">With reference to usage of signed PDF for official, legal records, see <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine-Readable_Documents">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine-Readable_Documents</a><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Owen<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Thomas Francart [mailto:thomas.francart@sparna.fr]<br />
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 14, 2016 3:02 AM<br />
<b>To:</b> Margaret Hagan <mdhagan@stanford.edu><br />
<b>Cc:</b> Timothy Holborn <timothy.holborn@gmail.com>; schema.org Mailing List <public-schemaorg@w3.org><br />
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Legal issues and services extension<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Margaret<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span>2016-11-13 18:44 GMT+01:00 Margaret Hagan <<a href="mailto:mdhagan@stanford.edu" target="_blank">mdhagan@stanford.edu</a>>:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Hi Timothy,<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Yes, perhaps it should be civics, rather than legal. My only concern is that some legal issues aren’t about the government-to-citizen relationship (like civics would imply), but about family matters (divorce, child custody, child support, domestic violence — these are some of the most common-searched legal help topics), corporate matters, contracts, property, etc.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">I’ve been working with courts and legal clinics to create an initial classification of the types of information that need to be delivered to end-users, as they search for help.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">The information classes are in 4 main categories:<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">1. Legal conditions (the issues that the legal system can help you solve, like needs for a name change, clearing record, starting a company, getting a divorce, protection against an abuser, response to eviction, etc. — taking how people describe their problems and framing it into legal terms)<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">2. Service providers (the govt., private, non-profit, and online/DIY services that can help a person deal with this condition, and where they’re located, what their availability is, and what eligibility factors they require)<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">3. Legal process (the tasks, forms, deadlines, fees, and other procedural information to know to deal with the condition)<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">4. Legal rules/codes (the official, jurisdiction-specific statements from the govt. about what is allowed, what rights people have, what duties they have, etc.)<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span>For your point 4 above, please have a look at the proposed <a href="http://legal.schema.org">legal.schema.org</a> extension : <a href="https://github.com/schemaorg/schemaorg/issues/1156">https://github.com/schemaorg/schemaorg/issues/1156</a> and examples of how to describe a legislation in a legal portal using <a href="http://schema.org">schema.org</a> plus this extension at <a href="http://legal.eli-legislation-schemaorg.appspot.com/Legislation">http://legal.eli-legislation-schemaorg.appspot.com/Legislation</a>. Please contribute if you have comments or ideas.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span>The ideal is that search engines can serve jurisdiction-correct, official-sourced information about what a person’s problem is in legal terms, what the local law says about it, what steps they can take to fix it, and who they can reach out to for help.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span>The proposed extension adresses some of these items :<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span>the notion of a legal document being "official" or not (a signed PDF document is official, the HTML version is informative only) (legislationLegalValue)<o:p></o:p></span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span>the notion of a legislation being currently in force or not ("not yet" in force or "not anymore" in force, i.e. abrogated/repealed) (legislationLegalForce)<o:p></o:p></span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span>the applicability area of a legislation (spatialCoverage)<o:p></o:p></span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span>the applicability time span of a legislation (temporalCoverage)<o:p></o:p></span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span>the official service/ministry they can call for question about the legislation (legislationResponsible)<o:p></o:p></span></li>
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<p><span>We want also to give the ability for search engines to serve "jusrisdiction-correct", "official-sourced" and currently-applicable legislation documents.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span>Thomas<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span>The legal rules/codes schema may be covered by the wiki categories, and the service providers may be covered by existing <a href="http://schema.org" target="_blank">schema.org</a>.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Let me know what you think! Best, Margaret<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="gmail-m2082411049280661392airmailon"><span>On November 13, 2016 at 9:16:24 AM, Timothy Holborn (<a href="mailto:timothy.holborn@gmail.com" target="_blank">timothy.holborn@gmail.com</a>) wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Hi Margaret, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span>I have a feeling this may be better refined as <a href="http://civics.schema.org" target="_blank">civics.schema.org</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span>A few links: <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span><a href="https://github.com/schemaorg/schemaorg/issues/1337" target="_blank">https://github.com/schemaorg/schemaorg/issues/1337</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1155CC"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Civics" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Civics</a><o:p></o:p></span></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span><u><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1155CC"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Law" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Law</a><o:p></o:p></span></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span>However i also understand some forms of lawPractice are far less 'civics' related than others. The use-cases you've illustrated are well within the civics domain, i'd also add homelessness and amenities (which in-turn have local laws attributed, for instance),<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span>and am otherwise interested to hear your thoughts.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span>It is very early morning here. can respond with more info later today. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span>On Mon, 14 Nov 2016 at 03:20 Margaret Hagan <<a href="mailto:mdhagan@stanford.edu" target="_blank">mdhagan@stanford.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Hi,<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">I was wondering if anyone knew of an extension for legal issues, rules, and/or services.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">I work at Stanford Law & d.school, and I’ve got support to build out an extension for information about common legal help conditions, like evictions, domestic violence protection, and clearing your criminal record. The goal is to offer reliable information akin to the medical/health extension.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">I wanted to check if there’s anyone else who has been working on a similar law extension, so I’m not duplicating efforts.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Thanks! Best, Margaret<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span><b><span style="color:black">Thomas Francart</span></b> -<b> </b><b><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:#666666">SPARN</span></b><b><span style="font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;color:#CC0000">A</span></b><br />
<span style="font-size:10.0pt">Web de <u>données</u> | Architecture de l'<u>information</u> | Accès aux <u>connaissances</u></span><br />
<span style="font-size:7.5pt">blog : <a href="http://blog.sparna.fr" target="_blank">blog.sparna.fr</a>, site : <a href="http://sparna.fr" target="_blank">sparna.fr</a>, linkedin : <a href="https://fr.linkedin.com/in/thomasfrancart" target="_blank">fr.linkedin.com/in/thomasfrancart</a><br />
tel : +33 (0)6.71.11.25.97, skype : francartthomas</span> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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Received on Wednesday, 25 January 2017 17:13:00 UTC