Re: [schemaorg] Vocabulary for comics (#378)

Hi Jeff,

So taking your suggestions into account where we would add the detail seen
in resources like the GCD using schema:name instead of schema:roleName on
schema:Role, the previous example might look more like this (assuming no
URIs for "pencils", and usage on the open Web with schema.org exclusively):

<dl vocab="http://schema.org/" prefix="lcrel:
http://id.loc.gov/vocabulary/relators/">
  <span property="contributor" typeof="Role">
    <dt><span property="name">Pencils</span>:</dt>
    <dd><span property="contributor lcrel:illustrator">Ron Lim</span></dd>
  </span>
</dl>

And using a domain vocabulary, or preferably WikiData:

<dl vocab="http://schema.org/" prefix="lcrel:
http://id.loc.gov/vocabulary/relators/ cbv: http://comicmeta.org/vocab/">
  <span property="contributor" typeof="Role">
    <dt><span property="roleName"
resource="cbv:Penciller">Pencils</span>:</dt>
    <dd><span property="contributor lcrel:illustrator">Ron Lim</span></dd>
  </span>
</dl>

Sean


On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 11:11 PM, Jeff Mixter <jeffmixter@gmail.com> wrote:

> Sean,
>
> Great work. I scanned through the ontology that you have created and it is
> very interesting.
>
> I would also argue that the LC relator illustrator [ill] could be used in
>> place of inker, letterist, and penciller, which would then give content
>> authors the option to clarify that role with schema:roleName using the
>> patterns identified further along in this thread. I'm guessing it would
>> look something like this (building on Dan's example from the message that
>> follows this one):
>
>
> I would suggest that the roleName use a URI whenever possible such as a LC
> relator URI or WikiData URI (as Jeff did in his example). I worry about
> query if you rely on a string label for the roleName (for example
> 'penciler' vs. 'Penciler' vs. 'pencil'). Obviously you could conduct a
> simple query to get all of the roleNames first and then use them for
> further query but that could get pretty long if you image 2 or 3 variations
> on each possible roleName (excluding spelling mistakes). If you can not
> find an appropriate URI for example there is no 'penciler' property, that
> is where you can start to ask questions about creating a new property (say
> in your ontology). This way it would act more like an extension vocabulary
> that could fit within the framework of Schema.org. If you want to add more
> detail you could always add a plain old schema:name property to the Role.
> This could be used for localized use by domain experts who want to
> specifically refine the Role.
>
> Jeff M
>
> On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 4:48 PM, Sean Petiya <spetiya1@kent.edu> wrote:
>
>> Hi Richard and all,
>>
>>
>>>  As Jeff indicated, there is some overlap and/or mismatch between your
>>> discussions of Role and similar concepts from the Library of Congress
>>> Relator Codes and WikiData.  How these terms are defined/referenced in the
>>> vocabulary is then a question.  I am always sceptical of statements such as
>>> “set that covers the major…”, because it is very difficult to a)get
>>> agreement on what is major and b) what do you do about defying the minor
>>> ones.
>>>
>>
>> In reference to comics, I think these major roles can best be identified
>> by the various stages in which a comic work is produced: the script,
>> pencils, inks, letters, and colors, up to the finished, published work. In
>> addition to editorial credits---and perhaps more comics specific roles like
>> "plotter"---I believe whats listed in the existing proposal represents the
>> core set of creative contributions, especially as they relate to stages in
>> the production process that can then be linked to examples of original
>> comics artwork. Also I believe they are roles most readily identifiable
>> with comics, which is why you'll find these credits highlighted
>> specifically in the majority of comics data on the Web.
>>
>> All that being said, none of these roles are necessarily comic book
>> specific, and define contributions to the production of any graphic work
>> (of note: animated cartoons, comic strips, manga, etc.). I would also argue
>> that the LC relator illustrator [ill] could be used in place of inker,
>> letterist, and penciller, which would then give content authors the option
>> to clarify that role with schema:roleName using the patterns identified
>> further along in this thread. I'm guessing it would look something like
>> this (building on Dan's example from the message that follows this one):
>>
>>   <span property="contributor" typeof="Role">
>>     <dt><span property="roleName">Pencils</span>:</dt>
>>     <dd><span property="contributor lcrel:illustrator">Ron Lim</span></dd>
>>   </span>
>>   <span property="contributor" typeof="Role">
>>     <dt><span property="roleName">Inks</span>:</dt>
>>     <dd><span property="contributor lcrel:illustrator">Ron Lim</span></dd>
>>   </span>
>>   <span property="contributor" typeof="Role">
>>     <dt><span property="roleName">Letters</span>:</dt>
>>     <dd><span property="contributor lcrel:illustrator">Dave
>> Sharpe</span></dd>
>>   </span>
>>
>> I think most (all?) inkers would argue that they do more than trace the
>> pencils [1] (see the NSFW clip from Chasing Amy -- "You're a Tracer"), and
>> play an active creative role in the illustration.
>>
>> This same pattern could also be used with the LC relator artist [art] for
>> other types of "minor", or less common credits, such as designer, painter,
>> etc. For example: http://www.comics.org/issue/250970/ where both the
>> cover and interior artwork are painted.
>>
>> So that would leave coverArtist from Jeff's list (a property which is
>> also relevant for other types of CreativeWork: album covers, book covers,
>> etc.). Perhaps the following would work (using the example above), or
>> even LC cover designer [cv]?:
>>
>>   <span property="contributor" typeof="Role">
>>     <dt><span property="roleName">Cover Art</span>:</dt>
>>     <dd><span property="contributor lcrel:artist">Bill Sienkiewicz
>> </span></dd>
>>   </span>
>>
>>
>> So, if the goal in schema.org proper is to not overlap or add exhaustive
>> roles, the suggestions in this thread would certainly work for comics! But
>> they would hopefully be called out in the accompanying documentation
>> examples, as webmasters will certainly be looking for them. And if there
>> were to be a bib.schema.org extension for comics, maybe they could live
>> there. Some of the granularity and minutiae, and I'm a big fan of comic
>> book minutiae---can be fulfilled through a domain vocabulary.
>>
>>
>>>  Your use of the term name ‘role’ conflicts with the Role
>>> <http://schema.org/Role> type in Schma.org, which in itself is not a
>>> problem (you could use creativeRole for example).
>>>
>>
>> Actually intended this property to function similar to schema:roleName,
>> so I will investigate, thank you for bringing it to my attention.
>>
>> Finally, I'm in agreement with the original GitHub poster, Davide. One of
>> the most immediately useful features of the comics proposal is the addition
>> of the comics-specific classes (this proposal covers Manga too, right? via
>> format?). It would also be nice if it addressed how some of the
>> bibliographic relationships, like "reprints" or "collects", were able to be
>> expressed (workExample/exampleOfWork, right?).
>>
>> Something I would like to see is collected editions like (
>> http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/714725942) connected to representations of
>> the individual issues they collect in resources like the Grand Comics
>> Database****, with other providers filling in the minutiae (characters,
>> stories, historical notes, etc.) downstream. See this example, for what I
>> think that might look like, and maybe a peek at some other comic book
>> properties like certification, grades, bindings, etc.
>>
>> [1]
>> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/seanpetiya/thesis/master/examples/main/fig45-linked-data-main-ex.html
>>
>> *** I do not represent the Grand Comics Database in any official
>> capacity, except for the fact that I do contribute to and make use of the
>> organization's data.
>>
>> Sean
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Jeff Mixter
> jeffmixter@gmail.com
> 440-773-9079
>