- From: Karen Coyle <kcoyle@kcoyle.net>
- Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2013 13:38:54 -0700
- To: "Young,Jeff (OR)" <jyoung@oclc.org>
- CC: Dan Scott <denials@gmail.com>, "public-schemabibex@w3.org" <public-schemabibex@w3.org>
Jeff, not sure what you mean by "structured." I think your example illustrates my concern. Branch name isn't sufficient in itself. We may need to supply something else from the context of the web site. kc On 10/19/13 1:26 PM, Young,Jeff (OR) wrote: > I don't think we should assume that branch names are structured. I checked out a book yesterday at "The Arcanaeum", which is a branch of "The College of Winterhold Library System". > > Sent from my iPad > >> On Oct 19, 2013, at 4:17 PM, "Karen Coyle" <kcoyle@kcoyle.net> wrote: >> >> Jeff, I'm trying to make a more practical argument, which is that without the name of the library, the branch name isn't meaningful. I don't think we can decide what is a proper seller v. location, but if the locations aren't meaningful alone, then we need the library name. >> >> kc >> >>> On 10/19/13 12:59 PM, Young,Jeff (OR) wrote: >>> Schema.org <http://Schema.org> has a branchOf property that probably has >>> a role to play sorting this out. >>> >>> I would argue that a "library system" like NYPL (in general) is more >>> like an administrative agency than it is an agency where books are being >>> circulated. The fact that the word "library" appears in the name >>> shouldn't be a huge problem for search engines if the data publishers >>> are careful. >>> >>> Jeff >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On Oct 19, 2013, at 3:08 PM, "Dan Scott" <denials@gmail.com >>> <mailto:denials@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> >>>> Also, I haven't added availableAtOrFrom to the examples on the >>>> Holdings proposal page because I was asking for consensus and >>>> providing sample examples in this thread. >>>> >>>> I am worried about this distinction you're introducing between branch >>>> and library. To me, a branch is a library. The seller represents the >>>> current physical location of the item (if that item is physical) where >>>> an interested party can pick it up. I think search engines are trying >>>> to satisfy an immediate need, not saying "oh it's available in NYPL >>>> somewhere". >>>> >>>> On Oct 19, 2013 2:24 PM, "Karen Coyle" <kcoyle@kcoyle.net >>>> <mailto:kcoyle@kcoyle.net>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Dan, I'm obviously having trouble explaining my point. Here's what >>>> I would add to the example: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> <div itemprop="offers" itemscope >>>> itemtype="http://schema.org/__Offer <http://schema.org/Offer>"> >>>> <meta itemprop="businessFunction" >>>> content="http://purl.org/__goodrelations/v1#LeaseOut >>>> <http://purl.org/goodrelations/v1#LeaseOut>"> >>>> <meta itemprop="seller" content="Example Branch 1</meta> >>>> <div>Call number: <span >>>> itemprop="inventoryIdentifier"__>876.54</span></div> >>>> <div>Location: <span >>>> itemprop="availableAtOrFrom">__Reference</span></div> >>>> <div>Item status: <span> >>>> <link itemprop="availability" >>>> href="http://schema.org/__InStoreOnly >>>> <http://schema.org/InStoreOnly>"> >>>> Library use only >>>> </span></div> >>>> </div> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> <div itemprop="offers" itemscope >>>> itemtype="http://schema.org/__Offer <http://schema.org/Offer>"> >>>> <meta itemprop="businessFunction" >>>> content="http://purl.org/__goodrelations/v1#LeaseOut >>>> <http://purl.org/goodrelations/v1#LeaseOut>"> >>>> <meta itemprop="seller" content="http://sfpl.org"></__meta> >>>> <div>Call number: <span >>>> itemprop="inventoryIdentifier"__>876.54</span></div> >>>> <div>Location: <span >>>> itemprop="availableAtOrFrom">__Reference</span></div> >>>> <div>Item status: <span> >>>> <link itemprop="availability" >>>> href="http://schema.org/__InStoreOnly >>>> <http://schema.org/InStoreOnly>"> >>>> Library use only >>>> </span></div> >>>> </div> >>>> >>>> "Seller" becomes the library, not the location within the library, >>>> and not even the branch. >>>> >>>> I see a useful interplay between "seller" and "availableAtOrFrom". >>>> If we add "availableAtOrFrom" (which I don't see on the examples >>>> on the web page for the proposal, but it makes good sense here), >>>> then we have "availableAtOrFrom" for the displayed physical >>>> location, whatever it is. Seller then becomes something that >>>> identifies the library qua organization, and should be an >>>> organization, not a location (like "Reference" or even "West >>>> branch"). Seller and availableAtOrFrom might be the same, but >>>> that's not a problem. For most displays, though, I think that they >>>> would be different, since the holdings display doesn't usually >>>> contain the library name: >>>> >>>> (site is Berkeley Public Library Catalog) >>>> Location Call no. Status >>>> CENTRAL LIB 876.54 Check shelf >>>> >>>> Imagine how many libraries have a location called "MAIN" or >>>> "CENTRAL" -- that's a location, not an organization. So you need >>>> to get the library organization name in there. >>>> >>>> <div itemprop="offers" itemscope >>>> itemtype="http://schema.org/__Offer <http://schema.org/Offer>"> >>>> <meta itemprop="businessFunction" >>>> content="http://purl.org/__goodrelations/v1#LeaseOut >>>> <http://purl.org/goodrelations/v1#LeaseOut>"> >>>> <meta itemprop="seller" content="Berkeley Public Library"></meta> >>>> <!-- or ... content="http://__berkeleypubliclibrary.org >>>> <http://berkeleypubliclibrary.org>" --> >>>> <div>Call number: <span >>>> itemprop="inventoryIdentifier"__>876.54</span></div> >>>> <div>Location: <span itemprop="availableAtOrFrom">__CENTRAL >>>> LIB</span></div> >>>> <div>Item status: <span> >>>> <link itemprop="availability" >>>> href="http://schema.org/__inStock <http://schema.org/inStock>"> >>>> Check shelf >>>> </span></div> >>>> </div> >>>> >>>> Does that make sense? >>>> >>>> kc >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I can include an example to cover this use case. >>>> >>>> Another case is for electronic >>>> materials. Library systems handle this differently, but >>>> there isn't a >>>> location in many cases: >>>> >>>> Online Click here >>>> >>>> >>>> Good question! What we do in Evergreen currently is essentially: >>>> >>>> <li property="offers" vocab="http://schema.org/" typeof="Offer"> >>>> <a href="URL_FOR_ELECTRONIC___MATERIAL">Available online</a> >>>> <link property="availability" >>>> href="http://schema.org/__OnlineOnly >>>> <http://schema.org/OnlineOnly>" /> >>>> ... >>>> </li> >>>> >>>> Glancing at this, I think I need to add in a property="url" to >>>> the <a> >>>> link there. And it certainly can have a <meta> tag for the >>>> "seller" >>>> property as well. I can include some documentation and an >>>> example for >>>> this use case, too. >>>> >>>> I'm thinking that there are cases in which the library >>>> itself is not >>>> included in the holdings statement (or anywhere else on >>>> the page) because it >>>> is inherent in the context of the system being searched. >>>> So my question is >>>> whether there is value in including information about the >>>> library itself as >>>> a super-location to the holdings location, or is the >>>> assumption that this >>>> connection will be made through, e.g., the URL of the web >>>> page that has the >>>> markup? >>>> >>>> >>>> I think there is significant value to creating 1) a page per >>>> library >>>> for a given system that contains the physical addresses / >>>> hours / etc, >>>> even for single-library systems and 2) linking to that page >>>> (explicitly, or implicitly via <meta>) from each of the associated >>>> offers. It will enable the search engines to follow their nose >>>> based >>>> on our assertions, rather than having to make assumptions >>>> about how >>>> many libraries may inherently be represented by >>>> library.example.com <http://library.example.com>. >>>> >>>> I think my question leads to a broader one about the use >>>> case for library >>>> data in schema.org <http://schema.org>. When I look at >>>> product examples it is clear to me that >>>> the target is the URL of the product page. Is this also >>>> the assumption for >>>> library data in schema.org <http://schema.org> -- that we >>>> are expecting a search engine >>>> retrieval of a page for a library resource, and that page >>>> is the target of >>>> the search? If so, then that URL is all that is needed to >>>> link to the >>>> library and its resource. If, however, we anticipate other >>>> uses to be made >>>> of the schema mark-up, such as organizing retrieved items >>>> by geographical >>>> location, then we need to get that information into each >>>> web page. This may >>>> be unrelated to the markup of holdings, but it was this >>>> proposal that >>>> brought it to mind. >>>> >>>> >>>> Good question again. I see the primary use case being the search >>>> engines ingesting a sitemap, crawling all of the listed pages, and >>>> sorting out the items and linked offers accordingly. >>>> >>>> In the case of our library catalogue, I created a sitemap that >>>> lists >>>> each of the record detail pages, which expose metadata & holdings. >>>> Unfortunately, when I generated the sitemap last year, it was >>>> before I >>>> had implemented holdings-as-offers; now that all of the attached >>>> offers will be part of each record details page, I think a new >>>> crawl >>>> of those pages could provoke much more interesting results. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Karen Coyle >>>> kcoyle@kcoyle.net <mailto:kcoyle@kcoyle.net> http://kcoyle.net >>>> m: 1-510-435-8234 <tel:1-510-435-8234> >>>> skype: kcoylenet >>>> >> >> -- >> Karen Coyle >> kcoyle@kcoyle.net http://kcoyle.net >> m: 1-510-435-8234 >> skype: kcoylenet >> > > -- Karen Coyle kcoyle@kcoyle.net http://kcoyle.net m: 1-510-435-8234 skype: kcoylenet
Received on Saturday, 19 October 2013 20:39:24 UTC