- From: Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
- Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2021 11:57:07 -0400
- To: public-rww@w3.org
- Message-ID: <22d4e6e7-25ce-4dd9-cbf4-c431a986bbe2@openlinksw.com>
On 7/27/21 5:52 AM, Melvin Carvalho wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, 27 Jul 2021 at 04:22, Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com
> <mailto:kidehen@openlinksw.com>> wrote:
>
> On 7/26/21 1:08 PM, Melvin Carvalho wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 26 Jul 2021 at 18:27, Ted Thibodeau Jr
>> <tthibodeau@openlinksw.com <mailto:tthibodeau@openlinksw.com>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Jul 26, 2021, at 02:34 AM, Melvin Carvalho
>> <melvincarvalho@gmail.com <mailto:melvincarvalho@gmail.com>>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Ah, I see the issue here
>>>
>>> The current WebID spec is in fact tightly coupled to Turtle
>>> (and http) via "MUST"
>>>
>>> https://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/webid/spec/identity/
>>> <https://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/webid/spec/identity/>
>>
>> Those who fail to read the "Status of This Document" are
>> doomed to pain and agony all the days of their implementation.
>>
>> To wit:
>>
>>> This document is produced from work by the W3C WebID
>>> Community Group <http://www.w3.org/community/webid/>. This
>>> is an internal draft document and may not even end up being
>>> officially published. It may also be updated, replaced or
>>> obsoleted by other documents at any time. It is
>>> inappropriate to cite this document as other than work in
>>> progress. The source code for this document is available at
>>> the following URI: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/WebID
>>> <https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/WebID>
>>>
>>> This document was published by the WebID CG
>>> <http://www.w3.org/community/webid/> as an Editor's Draft.
>>> If you wish to make comments regarding this document, please
>>> send them to public-webid@w3.org
>>> <mailto:public-webid@w3.org> (subscribe
>>> <mailto:public-webid-request@w3.org?subject=subscribe>, archives
>>> <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webid/>). All
>>> comments are welcome.
>>>
>>> Publication as an Editor's Draft does not imply endorsement
>>> by the W3C Membership. This is a draft document and may be
>>> updated, replaced or obsoleted by other documents at any
>>> time. It is inappropriate to cite this document as other
>>> than work in progress.
>>>
>> In other words: This is not a spec, current or otherwise.
>>
>> It is very much an Editor's Draft, coming from the discussions
>> of what was then an Incubator Group, and transformed into a
>> Community Group, but really reflecting the opinions of the
>> Chair who was doing double-duty as Editor, much more than of
>> the group as a whole.
>>
>> It does not come close to reflecting consensus of that old XG
>> (of which I was a member), never mind transition to a Candidate
>> Recommendation, and further progress down the REC-track was
>> likewise years away, as there was never a WebID Working Group.
>>
>> In my opinion, it should never have received the Respec skin
>> it has, which makes it *look* like something it isn't, and
>> at a minimum, W3C should find a way to put the watermarks
>> now in common use on draft specs in the github.io
>> <http://github.io> space onto
>> all the old draft specs that will otherwise continue to draw
>> people into thinking that output of one person's keyboard
>> have the same weight as the work product of several if not
>> dozens of people intellectual and technical efforts.
>>
>>
>> Good points. I guess it was last updated over 7 years ago and
>> both of the editors are no longer active
>>
>> And a lot has changed in that time!
>>
>
>
> Yes, but it was never a spec endorsed by the W3C.
>
> Today, it still isn't a spec endorsed by the W3C.
>
> All we have in reality is "WebID" as a colloquialism for an HTTP
> Identifier that denotes an Agent, and is generally conflated with
> a protocol for credential verification that goes by the moniker
> "WebID-TLS" .
>
>
> Makes sense. Tho WebID still is in use by some of the RDF folks, and
> I think they would argue that RDF/Turtle is mandated.
Let them, at the end of the day freedom should reign supreme :)
> In time that may change, but in years probably, given the run rate
>
>
> I am betting on verifiable credentials working via an emergent de
> facto protocol that's adopted en masse by developers at some
> point. However we get there, the following constants will be in play:
>
> 1. Logic as the Conceptual Schema
>
> 2. Resolvable Identifiers
>
> 3. Credentials that manifest as an Entity Relationship Graph
> comprising Resolvable Identifiers
>
> 4. Credential verification protocol
>
>
> I think what we need is JSON Objects, denoting an Agent, that can
> optionally have a URI.
There isn't a "one size fits all" solution to this matter.
Folks should simply build around an abstract core and ship apps and
services. The notion of one spec adopted by the world will not work, IMHO.
>
> If it has an abstract model that's fine also, which allows middleware
> solutions, and you can put it in a data store, including redis, mongo,
> browser stores, virtuoso, quad stores etc.
It is 100% about being abstract.
>
> Add an attribute for fingerprint or public key or delegate. This
> should be a single field, rather than more granular terms like
> modulus/exponent etc. which was never completed
>
> Put the fingerprint / key / provider in the doc for proof. Perhaps
> fingerprint should be preferred here. (even ni:/// hashes)
Whatever works for developers and the end-users they will ultimately be
bringing onboard.
>
> And the same JSON object can be used to create a friend graph, chat,
> signatures, and all sorts of other social functionality, not just auth
> -- this is where we create the real facebook alternative
Any kind of doc comprising structured data will do.
The goal of an endeavor aimed at developers should be:
1. Developer Adoption
2. Application Development and Deployment
User uptake is driven by the success of App Deployment & Marketing. It
is never about specs, as WebID has itself reminds us.
>
> Align this with real world usage, including fediverse, VCs, but with
> clean separation of Objects and Documents, following from REST like
> principles
See comment above.
>
> ie its really what people are already doing today, so it might not
> need a name as such. But a name and a documentation could help.
> Perhaps your NetID or YouID would be a good code name
>
> I guess what's more important is the documentation and examples. It's
> a bit scattered around on chats, mail lists, blog posts.
>
> Maybe an idea would be to use our wiki to write down some docs and
>
> I looked in our wiki for a page on Identity but couldnt find one.
> Perhaps we could start one or ...
>
> It turns out we have an ancient draft spec for the read write web here;
>
> https://www.w3.org/community/rww/wiki/Draft_Spec#Identity
> <https://www.w3.org/community/rww/wiki/Draft_Spec#Identity>
>
> Which includes an identity section
>
> Maybe it might be a good place to note down ideas from these
> conversations, based on what we've learnt over time -- as it's a wiki
> feel free to dive in -- and perhaps I can do some modernization work ...
Yes.
Kingsley
>
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Kingsley Idehen
> Founder & CEO
> OpenLink Software
> Home Page: http://www.openlinksw.com <http://www.openlinksw.com>
> Community Support: https://community.openlinksw.com <https://community.openlinksw.com>
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>
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>
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>
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>
--
Regards,
Kingsley Idehen
Founder & CEO
OpenLink Software
Home Page: http://www.openlinksw.com
Community Support: https://community.openlinksw.com
Weblogs (Blogs):
Company Blog: https://medium.com/openlink-software-blog
Virtuoso Blog: https://medium.com/virtuoso-blog
Data Access Drivers Blog: https://medium.com/openlink-odbc-jdbc-ado-net-data-access-drivers
Personal Weblogs (Blogs):
Medium Blog: https://medium.com/@kidehen
Legacy Blogs: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen/
http://kidehen.blogspot.com
Profile Pages:
Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/kidehen/
Quora: https://www.quora.com/profile/Kingsley-Uyi-Idehen
Twitter: https://twitter.com/kidehen
Google+: https://plus.google.com/+KingsleyIdehen/about
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen
Web Identities (WebID):
Personal: http://kingsley.idehen.net/public_home/kidehen/profile.ttl#i
: http://id.myopenlink.net/DAV/home/KingsleyUyiIdehen/Public/kingsley.ttl#this
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Received on Tuesday, 27 July 2021 15:57:26 UTC