Re: A Quick Note on WebID history - Re: All the Agents Challenge (ATAC) at ISWC 2021

NB also; is there any (commercial) reason why FOAF[1][2] is supplied via a
.com rather than a .org or similar?

was the heritage of the project that the parties sought to ensure that they
were provided sufficient dignity, financially, as to support life (ie:
income, etc.); or is this infrastructure built on the basis that people
were furnished the capacity to care for their own needs; and as such, the
infrastructure was built for the public good (a little like the english
language, or whatever)...  unencumbered, etc...

or is this a problem, only 'blockchains' may solve....?

Timothy Holborn.

[1] http://xmlns.com/foaf/spec/
[2] https://whois.domaintools.com/xmlns.com/

On Tue, 27 Jul 2021 at 21:09, Timothy Holborn <timothy.holborn@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Nb: the Web-ID concept (as is distinct to a URI based agent representing,
> more specifically, a non natural legal human being); never really dealt
> with the concept of agent to agent dynamic semantics very well.  At least
> not in the documentation.
>
> So much 'politics' involved...
>
> Nonetheless; an interpretation (that may well end up being credited to
> whomever) is that a WebID is a semantic thoughts are endpoint for human
> actors & their associative things (company roles, IoT (or web of things
> WoT), software agents, etc.
>
> I guess the easiest way to make the point clear is that a WebID could be a
> sparql (or sadly (?) perhaps also, graphql) endpoint.
>
> Future is what we make it.  I guess the biggest lesson over my time of
> being involved in this global BS; is that although there's billions of
> human stakeholders, let alone our biosphere stakeholders,
>
> Very few thinkers as may be temporally shown to have lit a path towards
> "good"...
>
> The hashtag I use is #RealityCheckTech. Kinda important for democracies,
> freedom from tyranny, etc.  Worthy (akin to worshipful persons) of more
> appropriately defined investment; than I can illustrate, historically.
> Links welcomed.
>
>
> Timothy Holborn
> (Very tired, emotionally).
>
> On Tue, 27 Jul 2021, 7:54 pm Melvin Carvalho, <melvincarvalho@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 27 Jul 2021 at 04:22, Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 7/26/21 1:08 PM, Melvin Carvalho wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, 26 Jul 2021 at 18:27, Ted Thibodeau Jr <
>>> tthibodeau@openlinksw.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 26, 2021, at 02:34 AM, Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ah, I see the issue here
>>>>
>>>> The current WebID spec is in fact tightly coupled to Turtle (and http)
>>>> via "MUST"
>>>>
>>>> https://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/webid/spec/identity/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Those who fail to read the "Status of This Document" are
>>>> doomed to pain and agony all the days of their implementation.
>>>>
>>>> To wit:
>>>>
>>>> This document is produced from work by the W3C WebID Community Group
>>>> <http://www.w3.org/community/webid/>. This is an internal draft
>>>> document and may not even end up being officially published. It may also be
>>>> updated, replaced or obsoleted by other documents at any time. It is
>>>> inappropriate to cite this document as other than work in progress. The
>>>> source code for this document is available at the following URI:
>>>> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/WebID
>>>>
>>>> This document was published by the WebID CG
>>>> <http://www.w3.org/community/webid/> as an Editor's Draft. If you wish
>>>> to make comments regarding this document, please send them to
>>>> public-webid@w3.org (subscribe
>>>> <public-webid-request@w3.org?subject=subscribe>, archives
>>>> <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webid/>). All comments are
>>>> welcome.
>>>>
>>>> Publication as an Editor's Draft does not imply endorsement by the W3C Membership.
>>>> This is a draft document and may be updated, replaced or obsoleted by other
>>>> documents at any time. It is inappropriate to cite this document as other
>>>> than work in progress.
>>>>
>>>> In other words: This is not a spec, current or otherwise.
>>>>
>>>> It is very much an Editor's Draft, coming from the discussions
>>>> of what was then an Incubator Group, and transformed into a
>>>> Community Group, but really reflecting the opinions of the
>>>> Chair who was doing double-duty as Editor, much more than of
>>>> the group as a whole.
>>>>
>>>> It does not come close to reflecting consensus of that old XG
>>>> (of which I was a member), never mind transition to a Candidate
>>>> Recommendation, and further progress down the REC-track was
>>>> likewise years away, as there was never a WebID Working Group.
>>>>
>>>> In my opinion, it should never have received the Respec skin
>>>> it has, which makes it *look* like something it isn't, and
>>>> at a minimum, W3C should find a way to put the watermarks
>>>> now in common use on draft specs in the github.io space onto
>>>> all the old draft specs that will otherwise continue to draw
>>>> people into thinking that output of one person's keyboard
>>>> have the same weight as the work product of several if not
>>>> dozens of people intellectual and technical efforts.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Good points.  I guess it was last updated over 7 years ago and both of
>>> the editors are no longer active
>>>
>>> And a lot has changed in that time!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, but it was never a spec endorsed by the W3C.
>>>
>>> Today, it still isn't a spec endorsed by the W3C.
>>>
>>> All we have in reality is "WebID" as a colloquialism for an HTTP
>>> Identifier that denotes an Agent, and is generally conflated with a
>>> protocol for credential verification that goes by the moniker "WebID-TLS" .
>>>
>>
>> Makes sense.  Tho WebID still is in use by some of the RDF folks, and I
>> think they would argue that RDF/Turtle is mandated.  In time that may
>> change, but in years probably, given the run rate
>>
>>
>>> I am betting on verifiable credentials working via an emergent de facto
>>> protocol that's adopted en masse by developers at some point. However we
>>> get there, the following constants will be in play:
>>>
>>> 1. Logic as the Conceptual Schema
>>>
>>> 2. Resolvable Identifiers
>>>
>>> 3. Credentials that manifest as an Entity Relationship Graph comprising
>>> Resolvable Identifiers
>>>
>>> 4. Credential verification protocol
>>>
>>
>> I think what we need is JSON Objects, denoting an Agent, that can
>> optionally have a URI.
>>
>> If it has an abstract model that's fine also, which allows middleware
>> solutions, and you can put it in a data store, including redis, mongo,
>> browser stores, virtuoso, quad stores etc.
>>
>> Add an attribute for fingerprint or public key or delegate.  This should
>> be a single field, rather than more granular terms like modulus/exponent
>> etc. which was never completed
>>
>> Put the fingerprint / key / provider in the doc for proof.  Perhaps
>> fingerprint should be preferred here. (even ni:/// hashes)
>>
>> And the same JSON object can be used to create a friend graph, chat,
>> signatures, and all sorts of other social functionality, not just auth --
>> this is where we create the real facebook alternative
>>
>> Align this with real world usage, including fediverse, VCs, but with
>> clean separation of Objects and Documents, following from REST like
>> principles
>>
>> ie its really what people are already doing today, so it might not need a
>> name as such.  But a name and a documentation could help.  Perhaps your
>> NetID or YouID would be a good code name
>>
>> I guess what's more important is the documentation and examples.  It's a
>> bit scattered around on chats, mail lists, blog posts.
>>
>> Maybe an idea would be to use our wiki to write down some docs and
>>
>> I looked in our wiki for a page on Identity but couldnt find one.
>> Perhaps we could start one or ...
>>
>> It turns out we have an ancient draft spec for the read write web here;
>>
>> https://www.w3.org/community/rww/wiki/Draft_Spec#Identity
>>
>> Which includes an identity section
>>
>> Maybe it might be a good place to note down ideas from these
>> conversations, based on what we've learnt over time -- as it's a wiki feel
>> free to dive in -- and perhaps I can do some modernization work ...
>>
>>
>>> --
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Kingsley Idehen 
>>> Founder & CEO
>>> OpenLink Software
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>>>
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>>>
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>>>
>>> Web Identities (WebID):
>>> Personal: http://kingsley.idehen.net/public_home/kidehen/profile.ttl#i
>>>         : http://id.myopenlink.net/DAV/home/KingsleyUyiIdehen/Public/kingsley.ttl#this
>>>
>>>

Received on Tuesday, 27 July 2021 11:44:41 UTC