Re: A Quick Note on WebID history - Re: All the Agents Challenge (ATAC) at ISWC 2021

On Mon, 26 Jul 2021 at 16:09, Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
wrote:

> On 7/26/21 2:39 AM, Melvin Carvalho wrote:
>
>
>
> On Mon, 26 Jul 2021 at 03:57, Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 7/25/21 4:48 PM, Melvin Carvalho wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Yes, but parties on both sides are at fault re trying to impose a
>>> default document content-type for serialization and persistence of
>>> credentials.
>>>
>>
>> The default document type of the web is html
>>
>>
>> Yes it is, which is why "RDF deployed via HTML" is a growing deployment
>> pattern [1]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> I continue to encourage the pursuit of verifiable identity solutions
>>> that aren't distracted by content-type conflicts.
>>>
>>> The ultimate beauty of RDF lies in its abstract nature i.e., it is
>>> fundamentally data representation format agnostic.
>>>
>>
>> RDF does have a lot of baggage.
>>
>>
>> No, the problems it solve are both complex and *scary* to those who wish
>> said problems were simple.
>>
>> You can wish simple solutions for complex problems. That's what Web 2.0
>> folks have done, and look at how nicely that's played out for the world
>> right now.
>>
>>
>> Forcing predicates as URIs, language tags, bnodes, data types, content
>> negotiation, XML format from 2002, SPARQL, RDF*, difficulty with arrays,
>> forcing everything to be a Set etc. etc.
>>
>>
>> I don't understand the point you are making above.
>>
>> RDF simply requires the use of IRIs for identifying entities and entity
>> relationship types (relations) . What's wrong with that?
>>
>>
>>
>> Where one might see beauty, others might see complexity.  Even as an
>> abstract format, it is opinionated
>>
>>
>> It isn't.
>>
>> What's opinionated, is all the thinking and money that went into imposing
>> Web 2.0 on the world. That effort is the root of most misconceptions
>> associated with RDF.
>>
>
> I would say the main hurdle for developers is that when they create an
> object every attribute MUST be a URI.  That makes for a poor developer
> experience.  That's what I think is opinionated.
>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> JSON-LD is good for engaging the so-called "Web Developer" due to the
>>> ubiquity of JSON. That developer-profile dominates the application
>>> development landscape in today's digital world.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It's too much of a heavy-lift for the average developer and they'll
>>> choose JSON.  The name RDF is poison to web developers
>>>
>>>
>>> Correction:
>>>
>>> RDF (formaized EAV i.e., EAV plus formalized Identifiers in the form of
>>> IRIs) cannot be poison since Web Developers generally understand EAV and
>>> work with it courtesy of structured data delivered via JSON docs :)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> IMHO we need a JSON based version of WebID, perhaps an extension of
>>> schema.org, as a basis to create a modern read-write web
>>>
>>>
>>> You need a Resolvable Identifier (e.g., and HTTP IRI) that resolves to a
>>> variety of documents types. If the target audience is Web Developers,
>>> JSON-LD or pure JSON will suffice as the default.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, JSON with URis.
>>
>>
>> But you stated above that URI requirement in abstract RDF was
>> problematic? I can't reconcile both of those thoughts.
>>
>
> Again, we're talking about MUST vs SHOULD.  JSON doesnt reqiure you to use
> URIs as predicates, but when you use schema.org they show you how to do
> that.
>
>
> It isn't about using IRIs as predicates. It is about denoting predicates
> using IRIs.
>
> IRIs simply offer an effect denotation mechanism.
>
> JSON-LD solves the predicate denotation issue for JSON-LD developers.
>

It doesnt solve the issue, it just makes it a bit easier

JSON-LD 1.2 may solve it though, but there's no reason to wait for that


> For pure JSON developers, it is solved by relative IRIs generated by
> agents operating on the data i.e., they don't have to anything on the
> predicate denotation front, if so desired.
>
> Just take a look at how we handle JSON in our Structured Data Sniffer. We
> specifically added JSON and CSV support to demonstrate how these matters
> are handled.
>
> Links:
>
> [1]
> https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/openlink-structured-data/egdaiaihbdoiibopledjahjaihbmjhdj?hl=en
> -- for Chromium compliant browsers
>
> [2]
> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/openlink-structured-data-sniff/
> -- Mozilla
>
> [3]
> https://twitter.com/search?q=%40datasniff%20%23JSON&src=typed_query&f=live
> -- JSON handling examples
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Kingsley Idehen 
> Founder & CEO
> OpenLink Software
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>

Received on Monday, 26 July 2021 14:39:15 UTC