- From: Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
- Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2021 10:01:23 -0400
- To: public-rww@w3.org
- Message-ID: <3f1242ed-db48-dec5-102a-6b1cd7cdc7e4@openlinksw.com>
On 7/26/21 2:34 AM, Melvin Carvalho wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, 26 Jul 2021 at 03:42, Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com
> <mailto:kidehen@openlinksw.com>> wrote:
>
> On 7/25/21 4:32 PM, Melvin Carvalho wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 25 Jul 2021 at 22:06, Kingsley Idehen
>> <kidehen@openlinksw.com <mailto:kidehen@openlinksw.com>> wrote:
>>
>> On 7/25/21 11:12 AM, Melvin Carvalho wrote:
>> >
>> > Yes, if you said to any web developer in the world, "JSON
>> with URLs",
>> > they'd get it immediately
>>
>> Yes, they do!
>>
>> I tend to phrase it as URLs as Data Source Names that resolve
>> to content
>> comprising any of the following:
>>
>> 1. JSON -- for EAV
>> 2. CSV -- for N-Tuples representing a Table/Grid/Spreadsheet
>>
>>
>> Yes, JSON as EAV is great
>>
>> So the issue with WebID is that it's almost unimplementable.
>
>
> You are conflating two things when you make that statement:
>
> 1. WebID -- a resolvable identifier that identifies and Person or
> Agent
>
>
> Ah, I see the issue here
>
> The current WebID spec is in fact tightly coupled to Turtle (and http)
> via "MUST"
>
> https://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/webid/spec/identity/
> <https://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/webid/spec/identity/>
That doc should have always give JSON-LD and Turtle equal billing, but
it didn't -- thereby making it vulnerable to distracting JSON-LD vs
Turtle arguments.
This is how we've ended up in this very strange place.
>
>
> 2. WebID-TLS -- a protocol that extends TLS by using a WebID as a
> pointer to a credentials doc (WebID-Profile Doc) that's reconciled
> to the Public Key used to establish a TLS session.
>
> I believe you are stating that the protocol above (WebID-TLS) has
> implementation challenges arising from the manner in which User
> Agents handle TLS sessions.
>
>
> I dont even think of auth when I think of WebID, though most people
> do. I'm thinking of user profiles. Auth is a bonus
WebID is just an Identifier used to denote an Agent that resolves to a
Profile Document.
Unfortunately, it is now associated with:
1. Serialization and Storage Format Specificity
2. Credentials and Authentication Protocol Conflation
Basically, the product of problematic marketing communications that
assumes being generic (rather than specific) is a plus rather than minus.
Time has demonstrated (quite clearly) that this approach is expensive
and self-defeating.
>
>
>
>> The reason is that you are required to use turtle, which doesnt
>> have a native parser, or native user base.
>
>
> That only applies in a world where WebID and Turtle are
> tightly-coupled. That isn't the world I see (past, present, or
> future).
>
>
> So your idea of a NetID, if the default serialization was JSON I think
> would work well
>
> NetID = easy, implementable, evolving = anyURI that denotes an agent,
> and brings back machine readable profile data in the form of JSON
NetID doesn't have a default serialization, it focuses on logic as the
conceptual schema. If an implementer wants to use JSON as their default,
so be it.
In regards to our authentication layer, we support NetID as a superset
of WebID where HTTP(S) is just one of many protocols for identifier
resolution.
>
> Perhaps this is something that could be written up. We could even
> publish it in this group
Yes, if need be.
BTW -- we no longer focus solely on Public Key matching when verifying
credentials, you can also use SHA1 fingerprints denoted using ni: and
other hash oriented URI schemes. We even support Hash Emoji's.
Kingsley
>
>
>
>> It also struggles to handle any sort of arithmetic.
>>
>> Then you need to correctly implement content negotiation which
>> always breaks something. Almost no one can do it, even large firms
>>
>> I say 'almost' because perhaps OpenLink is the best out there.
>> So, as a quick experiment I just tried the two WebIDs in your
>> profile:
>>
>> 1. time curl
>> http://kingsley.idehen.net/public_home/kidehen/profile.ttl#i
>> <http://kingsley.idehen.net/public_home/kidehen/profile.ttl#i>
>> Time taken: 8.52s
>> Result: a file in turtle, doesnt display in the browser
>>
>> 2.
>> id.myopenlink.net/DAV/home/KingsleyUyiIdehen/Public/kingsley.ttl#this
>> <http://id.myopenlink.net/DAV/home/KingsleyUyiIdehen/Public/kingsley.ttl#this>
>> Time taken: 7.78s
>> Result: curl: (56) Recv failure: Connection reset by peer
>
> curl -kI
> https://id.myopenlink.net/DAV/home/KingsleyUyiIdehen/Public/kingsley.ttl#this
> <https://id.myopenlink.net/DAV/home/KingsleyUyiIdehen/Public/kingsley.ttl#this>
> HTTP/1.1 200 OK
> Server: Virtuoso/08.03.3322 (Linux) x86_64-generic-linux-glibc25 VDB
> Connection: Keep-Alive
> Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2021 01:31:29 GMT
> Accept-Ranges: bytes
> Allow: COPY, DELETE, GET, HEAD, LOCK, MKCOL, MOVE, OPTIONS, PATCH,
> POST, PROPFIND, PROPPATCH, PUT, TRACE, UNLOCK
> Vary: Accept-Encoding, Access-Control-Request-Headers, Origin
> MS-Author-Via: DAV, SPARQL
> Accept-Patch: application/sparql-update
> *Accept-Post: text/turtle, text/n3, text/nt, text/html,
> application/ld+json*
> Link: <http://www.w3.org/ns/ldp#Resource>
> <http://www.w3.org/ns/ldp#Resource>; rel="type"
> Link: <http://www.w3.org/ns/ldp#NonRDFSource>
> <http://www.w3.org/ns/ldp#NonRDFSource>; rel="type"
> Link:
> <https://id.myopenlink.net/DAV/home/KingsleyUyiIdehen/Public/kingsley.ttl,meta>
> <https://id.myopenlink.net/DAV/home/KingsleyUyiIdehen/Public/kingsley.ttl,meta>;
> rel="describedby"
> Link: <?p=1>; rel="first"
> Link: <?p=1>; rel="last"
> Link:
> <https://id.myopenlink.net/DAV/home/KingsleyUyiIdehen/Public/kingsley.ttl,meta>
> <https://id.myopenlink.net/DAV/home/KingsleyUyiIdehen/Public/kingsley.ttl,meta>;
> rel="meta"; title="Metadata File"
> ETag: "4c2d0dee687e042f34aaa9214d5b7730"
> X-SPARQL-default-graph:
> http://id.myopenlink.net/DAV/home/KingsleyUyiIdehen/Public/kingsley.ttl
> <http://id.myopenlink.net/DAV/home/KingsleyUyiIdehen/Public/kingsley.ttl>
> Content-disposition: filename=sparql_2021-07-26_01-31-29Z.ttl
> Content-Type: text/turtle
> Content-Length: 19817
>
>>
>> And I would say OpenLink are the very best out there, in
>> middleware for turtle etc.
>
>
> We are passionately committed to data de-silo-fication which means
> as commitment to content-negotiation and the like. Data
> transformation is our calling, and the very heart and soul of the
> company :)
>
>
>>
>> Similarly, solid pods have major bugs in their WebiDs
>>
>> Conclusion: WebID as a means to facilitate profiles on the
>> social web is unimplementable.
>
>
> An resolvable identifier is what's workable. For those committed
> to HTTP, WebID is workable.
>
>
>> I actually only just realized this today after about 10 years
>> of observing all the different attempts to implement it, out there
>>
>> An EAV solution with a familiar syntax (JSON), parser etc. as per
>> schema.org <http://schema.org> is what works and WebID needs to
>> adapt to that (somehow)
>
>
> You can implement a protocol based on the same logic that
> underlies WebID-TLS using other resolvable identifiers and
> JSON-based profile documents. Unfortunately, this simple solution
> is hard for many to accept and understand, for reasons I struggle
> to understand.
>
>
>>
>> Which of course is the approach of schema.org <http://schema.org>
>> and a reason it's got major traction as the de facto semantic web ...
>
>
> Schema.org offers a general purpose vocabulary supported by
> Google. Thus, any sane Web Master and/or Content Manager would be
> remiss to ignore it.
>
> Anyway, schema.org <http://schema.org> provides enough terms
> definitions to implementing the WebID-TLS protocol, we've actually
> implemented support for that years ago too.
>
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Kingsley Idehen
> Founder & CEO
> OpenLink Software
> Home Page: http://www.openlinksw.com <http://www.openlinksw.com>
> Community Support: https://community.openlinksw.com <https://community.openlinksw.com>
> Weblogs (Blogs):
> Company Blog: https://medium.com/openlink-software-blog <https://medium.com/openlink-software-blog>
> Virtuoso Blog: https://medium.com/virtuoso-blog <https://medium.com/virtuoso-blog>
> Data Access Drivers Blog: https://medium.com/openlink-odbc-jdbc-ado-net-data-access-drivers <https://medium.com/openlink-odbc-jdbc-ado-net-data-access-drivers>
>
> Personal Weblogs (Blogs):
> Medium Blog: https://medium.com/@kidehen <https://medium.com/@kidehen>
> Legacy Blogs: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen/ <http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen/>
> http://kidehen.blogspot.com <http://kidehen.blogspot.com>
>
> Profile Pages:
> Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/kidehen/ <https://www.pinterest.com/kidehen/>
> Quora: https://www.quora.com/profile/Kingsley-Uyi-Idehen <https://www.quora.com/profile/Kingsley-Uyi-Idehen>
> Twitter: https://twitter.com/kidehen <https://twitter.com/kidehen>
> Google+: https://plus.google.com/+KingsleyIdehen/about <https://plus.google.com/+KingsleyIdehen/about>
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen <http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen>
>
> Web Identities (WebID):
> Personal: http://kingsley.idehen.net/public_home/kidehen/profile.ttl#i <http://kingsley.idehen.net/public_home/kidehen/profile.ttl#i>
> : http://id.myopenlink.net/DAV/home/KingsleyUyiIdehen/Public/kingsley.ttl#this <http://id.myopenlink.net/DAV/home/KingsleyUyiIdehen/Public/kingsley.ttl#this>
>
--
Regards,
Kingsley Idehen
Founder & CEO
OpenLink Software
Home Page: http://www.openlinksw.com
Community Support: https://community.openlinksw.com
Weblogs (Blogs):
Company Blog: https://medium.com/openlink-software-blog
Virtuoso Blog: https://medium.com/virtuoso-blog
Data Access Drivers Blog: https://medium.com/openlink-odbc-jdbc-ado-net-data-access-drivers
Personal Weblogs (Blogs):
Medium Blog: https://medium.com/@kidehen
Legacy Blogs: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen/
http://kidehen.blogspot.com
Profile Pages:
Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/kidehen/
Quora: https://www.quora.com/profile/Kingsley-Uyi-Idehen
Twitter: https://twitter.com/kidehen
Google+: https://plus.google.com/+KingsleyIdehen/about
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen
Web Identities (WebID):
Personal: http://kingsley.idehen.net/public_home/kidehen/profile.ttl#i
: http://id.myopenlink.net/DAV/home/KingsleyUyiIdehen/Public/kingsley.ttl#this
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Received on Monday, 26 July 2021 14:01:41 UTC