- From: Henry Story <henry.story@bblfish.net>
- Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 23:40:45 +0100
- To: Alexandre Bertails <bertails@w3.org>
- Cc: Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>, Andrei SAMBRA <andrei.sambra@gmail.com>, "public-webid@w3.org" <public-webid@w3.org>, "public-rww@w3.org" <public-rww@w3.org>
- Message-Id: <88EDB31E-B4B1-4B01-8B72-18BAD4598337@bblfish.net>
On 15 Nov 2012, at 23:22, Alexandre Bertails <bertails@w3.org> wrote: > On 11/15/2012 05:06 PM, Kingsley Idehen wrote: >> On 11/15/12 4:57 PM, Alexandre Bertails wrote: >>> [snip] >>> >>>>> That was the concern of the people who set the definition for WebID at >>>>> TPAC. >>>> >>>> Not wanting to go backwards, instead of forwards. The conclusion at TPAC >>>> were simply wrong albeit well intended. >>> >>> Maybe you need to ask yourself why all the people in the room agreed, >>> and why you're still fighting? >> >> And clearly you are behind the thread. The definition has been >> corrected. I don't have major issues with the new definition. > > True, I'm trying to limit my time to _doing_ things. > >> Turtle and hash URLs are not in the new definition. > > I wonder if people advocating for such things read the minutes that > lead to the vote and the Approved definition during TPAC. > > I'm designing systems, with interoperability and adoption in mind. In > the case of WebID, we believe that it means "building on top of LDP", > which I recall is the only W3C Working Group that is chartered to work > on defining the platform (Read-Write) for RDF data *on the Web*. This > Community Group has *no chance* to bring WebID to LDP if it's not > built on top of LDP, you need to realize that. I think we are allready very close to it. We have a WebID over TLS authenticator MUST understand Turtle and RDFa. And We have a WebID document Must return something that can be transformed into RDF. See the definition of WebID and WebID Profile https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/WebID/raw-file/tip/spec/index-respec.html What it does currently is require a public key tied to the WebID. As I understand that is too much precision for you. I think perhaps most of us agree on that now. But the question is we still need to define a bit more precisely what is in the profile document then. And that is tricky, but see below... > > So if it means that we need to stop speaking about WebID just because > we don't agree on the goal and the plan, then I'm happy to do so. > > What about LDP-ID? By the way I think it is a good exercise to define an LDP-ID. I did so a bit earlier in this thread. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webid/2012Nov/0037.html > > Alexandre. > >> >>> >>>> >>>>> I don't understand why people are loosing time with changing the >>>>> definition. >>>> >>>> Because any definition of WebID that includes specific references to >>>> hash URIs and Turtle is broken. Simple as that. >>> >>> To you maybe. Not to the people interested in defining the standard, >>> and with adoption as a goal. >>> >>> I don't have time to spend on endless debates when only a very few >>> individuals are noisy. I define and implement systems. >>> >>> So I would suggest to people to focus on the definition we had >>> previously, and adapt the spec and our implementations accordingly. >>> >>> Let's move forward please. >> >> Please bring yourself up to date re. current state of the thread about >> the WebID definition. You are out of sync right now! >> >> The only debates in play (between Henry and I) right now are minor re. >> URI vs URL, that's it. > > True, I'm trying to limit my time on ML to do > >> >> Kingsley >> >>> >>> Alexandre. >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Kingsley >>>>> >>>>> Alexandre. >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> For WebID based authentication to work it doesn't need to >>>>>> compromise the >>>>>> virtues of URIs. Just use simple examples to make matters clearer. >>>>>> >>>>>> The solution to the problem is that you don't introduce technology >>>>>> via a >>>>>> technical spec. It's conventionally achieved as follows: >>>>>> >>>>>> 1. conceptual guide and overview >>>>>> 2. technical specs >>>>>> 3. implementation guides and examples -- this is where you can be >>>>>> specific about URLs, Turtle docs etc.. by using them in all the >>>>>> examples. >>>>>> >>>>>> When you start from #2 you are vulnerable to: >>>>>> >>>>>> 1. political distractions -- e.g., format (as opposed to semantics) >>>>>> oriented warfare >>>>>> 2. FUD -- when the abstract nature isn't obvious those threatened will >>>>>> come at you with FUD. >>>>>> >>>>>> We don't need to compromise the essence of the Web for all of this to >>>>>> work. >>>>>> >>>>>> Remember, HTML wasn't prescribed to the world en route to WWW >>>>>> bootstrap, >>>>>> the "view source" pattern from early browsers enabled folks to cut and >>>>>> paste what was behind the page (which could have been anything) >>>>>> into new >>>>>> spaces en route to understanding the implications of fusing Hypertext >>>>>> and TCP/IP. >>>>>> >>>>>> Standards are retrsopective things, they are the result of coalescing >>>>>> around what works, so the sequence is always: >>>>>> >>>>>> 1. de facto standard -- common practice >>>>>> 3. industry standard -- accepted best practice. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Kingsley >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> >>>>>> Kingsley Idehen >>>>>> Founder & CEO >>>>>> OpenLink Software >>>>>> Company Web:http://www.openlinksw.com >>>>>> Personal Weblog:http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen >>>>>> Twitter/Identi.ca handle: @kidehen >>>>>> Google+ Profile:https://plus.google.com/112399767740508618350/about >>>>>> LinkedIn Profile:http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > Social Web Architect http://bblfish.net/
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Received on Thursday, 15 November 2012 22:41:20 UTC