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<csma> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2010May/att-0007/2010-05-04-rif-minutes.html

<csma> PROPOSED: approve meinutes 4 May

<ChrisW> +1

<csma> RESOLVED: approve minutes from May 4

<MichaelKifer> +1

Liason

Axel: SPARQL will publish new round of docs in next 2-3 weeks, suggest looking at entailments document
... question from SPARQL WG - need URI to denote RIF import, use existing RIF namespace?

Sandro: need details before making that decision

Axel: note "under discussion" in draft

<csma> next item

<AxelPolleres> editor's draft version is still undergoing small changes, will keep you updated (or via sandro, if he's ok wirth that)

<AxelPolleres> ah, sorry, I just see the latest draft has URI http://www.w3.org/ns/entailment/RDF-RIF-imports which is not in the rif-namespace, so it should be fine.

Action review

action-1009 closed

<trackbot> ACTION-1009 Review Appendix A of FLD closed

action-1007 closed

<trackbot> ACTION-1007 Review new FLD appendix on herbrand structures closed

action-1006 closed

<trackbot> ACTION-1006 Update PRD changelog closed

action-1005 closed

<trackbot> ACTION-1005 Draft reply to WL closed

action-733 closed

<trackbot> ACTION-733 Review owl-2 rl embedding of combinations closed

Proposed Rec!

csma: everyone talk to ac reps to encourage support for move to recommendation

sandro: when Rec is published (~1 month if goes well), there will a press release, this is an opportunity for member organizations to offer testimonials to include, see guidelines in email

Axel: issue of membership facts was resolved in email, but would still prefer improved phrasing

Sandro: purely editorial changes are OK

<AxelPolleres> Do we need to discharge the contradicting resolution?

<AxelPolleres> with a new one?

csma: does asserting the corresponding frames from OWL ontology using rdf:type instead of membership lead to membership entailments even if no import? (Concerned about implications for PRD)

Axel: yes
... do we need a resolution to bring resolution state up to correspondence with spec?

csma: thinking about implications for PRD, try writing it down as a test case

<AxelPolleres> so, what about http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/meeting/2009-01-15#resolution_3 ?

Sandro: something to clarify the record would make sense

csma: clarify question over corresponding OWL frames then agree improved text

<AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: update http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/meeting/2009-01-15#resolution_3 with the following text in Rif Core

<AxelPolleres> * Equality terms and class membership terms *cannot* occur in universal

<AxelPolleres> facts, variable-free atomic formulas outside of rule premises, or rule

<AxelPolleres> conclusions -- they are allowed only in rule premises

csma: is asserting rdf:type equivalent to asserting #, i.e. does a reference to rdf:type automatically imply SWC even if not an RDF-RIF combination?

sandro: need to import to invoke SWC sections, might be done with an empty document

<AxelPolleres> I would view christian's concern orthogonal...

<AxelPolleres> ... to the RIF Core resolution.

<AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: update http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/meeting/2009-01-15#resolution_3 with the proposed text in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2010May/0057.html in Section 2.3 of Rif Core

<AxelPolleres> PROPOSED: update http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/meeting/2009-01-15#resolution_3 with adpoting the proposed text in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2010May/0057.html in Section 2.3 of Rif Core

<csma> * Equality terms and class membership terms *cannot* occur in universal

<csma> > facts, variable-free atomic formulas outside of rule premises, or rule

<csma> > conclusions -- they are allowed only in rule premises.

<Harold> *cannot* should not be emphasized.

Harold: without the emphasis on "cannot"

<csma> PROPOSED: update http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/meeting/2009-01-15#resolution_3 with including the folling text in section 2.3 of RIF Core: "Equality terms and class membership terms cannot occur in universal facts, variable-free atomic formulas outside of rule premises, or rule conclusions -- they are allowed only in rule premises."

<sandro> +0

<AxelPolleres> 0 ... meaning that in principle I still had preferred # facts in Core (easier to explain, IMO), but I can live with the resolution. Given the implications, this is probably the best we can do now.

<ChrisW> +1

<Harold> +1

<sandro> (right, like axel)

<MichaelKifer> 0

+0

<csma> RESOLVED: update http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/meeting/2009-01-15#resolution_3 with including the folling text in section 2.3 of RIF Core: "Equality terms and class membership terms cannot occur in universal facts, variable-free atomic formulas outside of rule premises, or rule conclusions -- they are allowed only in rule premises."

<csma> http://www.w3.org/TR/rif-core/#Appendix:_RIF_Media_Type_Registration

csma: wondering if media type registration belongs to core or applies to BLD and PRD

Harold: specified in Core since both BLD and PRD extend core

Sandro: it is in the IANA registry, does not need duplication to other specs
... points out editorial problem in section "Applications that use this media type", will deal with it

<sandro> ACTION: sandro to fix the reference to Proposed Rec in the Media Type Registraiton, in Core [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/18-rif-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1013 - Fix the reference to Proposed Rec in the Media Type Registraiton, in Core [on Sandro Hawke - due 2010-05-25].

Sandro: as well as talk to AC rep and marketing representatives, should make effort to contact others nominally still in WG to encourage them to support

<csma> http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=38457

<sandro> http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=38457&order=org

<scribe> ACTION: Sandro to contact Clevand Clinic to encourage AC support [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/18-rif-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1014 - Contact Clevand Clinic to encourage AC support [on Sandro Hawke - due 2010-05-25].

<AxelPolleres> I think Darko is also in Karlsruhe now...

<scribe> ACTION: csma email Markus Krotzsch re AC support [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/18-rif-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1015 - Email Markus Krotzsch re AC support [on Christian de Sainte Marie - due 2010-05-25].

<scribe> ACTION: csma email Enrico Franconi re AC support [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/18-rif-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1016 - Email Enrico Franconi re AC support [on Christian de Sainte Marie - due 2010-05-25].

<scribe> ACTION: csma email Luis Polo re AC support [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/18-rif-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1017 - Email Luis Polo re AC support [on Christian de Sainte Marie - due 2010-05-25].

<scribe> ACTION: axel contact Michael Sintek re AC support [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/18-rif-minutes.html#action06]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1018 - Contact Michael Sintek re AC support [on Axel Polleres - due 2010-05-25].

<Zakim> AxelPolleres, you wanted to ask whethrer we have a template for the support mail?

Chris: two things to do - talk to your own AC rep to ask them to vote for it, if you want to be included in press release get someone in marketing area to put testimonial together and submit it

<sandro> 1. Get AC Reps to fill out http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/33280/rif_pr_auto/ and support RIF.

<sandro> 2. Get marketing departments to send in testimonials for support, as per http://www.w3.org/2004/12/testimonial_pr-guidelines.html

<AxelPolleres> 2 things to do: 1) talk to AC Reps to vote for RIF and 2) to encourage advertising press releases

<AxelPolleres> alright.

<scribe> ACTION: csma contact Mohamed Zergaoui re: AC suport [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/18-rif-minutes.html#action07]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1019 - Contact Mohamed Zergaoui re: AC suport [on Christian de Sainte Marie - due 2010-05-25].

<scribe> ACTION: sandro contact Igor Mozetic re: AC support [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/18-rif-minutes.html#action08]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1020 - Contact Igor Mozetic re: AC support [on Sandro Hawke - due 2010-05-25].

<sandro> http://www.w3.org/Member/ACList

<scribe> ACTION: csma talk to Ken for Mitre re: AC support [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/18-rif-minutes.html#action09]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1021 - Talk to Ken for Mitre re: AC support [on Christian de Sainte Marie - due 2010-05-25].

<AxelPolleres> need to run, sorry...

<scribe> ACTION: csma talk to Guido re: AC support [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/18-rif-minutes.html#action10]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1022 - Talk to Guido re: AC support [on Christian de Sainte Marie - due 2010-05-25].

<sandro> Mary Brady @ NIST

<scribe> ACTION: csma talk to Ed Barkmeyer re: AC support [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/18-rif-minutes.html#action11]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1023 - Talk to Ed Barkmeyer re: AC support [on Christian de Sainte Marie - due 2010-05-25].

<scribe> ACTION: csma talk to OMG re: AC support [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/18-rif-minutes.html#action12]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1024 - Talk to OMG re: AC support [on Christian de Sainte Marie - due 2010-05-25].

<scribe> ACTION: csma talk to Mark Proctor re: AC support [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/18-rif-minutes.html#action13]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1025 - Talk to Mark Proctor re: AC support [on Christian de Sainte Marie - due 2010-05-25].

<scribe> ACTION: dave talk to Elisa re: AC support [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/18-rif-minutes.html#action14]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1026 - Talk to Elisa re: AC support [on Dave Reynolds - due 2010-05-25].

<scribe> ACTION: Sandro contact Boeing re: AC support [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/18-rif-minutes.html#action15]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1027 - Contact Boeing re: AC support [on Sandro Hawke - due 2010-05-25].

<scribe> ACTION: dave contact Jeff Pan re: AC support [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/18-rif-minutes.html#action16]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1028 - Contact Jeff Pan re: AC support [on Dave Reynolds - due 2010-05-25].

<scribe> ACTION: Chrisw contact Bijan re: AC support [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/18-rif-minutes.html#action17]

<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - Chrisw

<scribe> ACTION: Chris contact Bijan re: AC support [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/18-rif-minutes.html#action18]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1029 - Contact Bijan re: AC support [on Christopher Welty - due 2010-05-25].

RIF Primer

Chris: have an outline, working on content at the moment
... starting with simple motivating examples
... primarily aimed at linked data community, focuses on rule language and why you would want rules
... focused mainly on Core/BLD, might also want PRD but want to keep short
... timescale not clear yet, try to get estimate for next telecon

<csma> next item

csma: moved to adjorn