[Admin] Minutes of 23 March 2010 Telecon

I forgot to invite rrsagent so the attached are the somewhat cleaned up but not quite html minutes for the meeting.

Please check for errors.

-Chris

-- 
Dr. Christopher A. Welty                    IBM Watson Research Center
+1.914.784.7055                             19 Skyline Dr.
cawelty@gmail.com                           Hawthorne, NY 10532
http://www.research.ibm.com/people/w/welty 

Meeting: RIF Telecon 23 March 2010
Chair: Chris Welty
Attendees: Mike_Dean, Harold, DaveReynolds, ChrisWelty, josb, AdrianP, Leora_Morgenstern, Hassan_Ait-Kaci, Yuting, Gary (irc), Stella (irc)
Regrets: Christian de Sainte-Marie, Sandro Hawke, Michael Kifer
Scribe: Dave Reynolds

Zakim: SW_RIF()11:00AM has now started
Zakim: +Mike_Dean
Zakim: +[NRCC]
Zakim: +[IPcaller]
Harold: zakim, [NRCC] is me
Zakim: +Harold; got it
Zakim: +[IBM]
ChrisWelty: zakim, ibm is temporarily me
Zakim: +ChrisWelty; got it
ChrisWelty: scribe: DaveReynolds
ChrisWelty: scribenick: DaveReynolds

ChrisWelty: TOPIC: Admin
Zakim: +??P18
Zakim: +??P19
ChrisWelty: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2010Mar/att-0060/rif-minutes-2010-03-16.htm
AdrianP: Zakim, ??P18 is me
ChrisWelty: zakim, who is on the phone?
Zakim: +AdrianP; got it
Zakim: On the phone I see Mike_Dean, DaveReynolds, Harold, ChrisWelty, AdrianP, josb
Zakim: +Leora_Morgenstern
ChrisWelty: PROPOSED: accept last meeting minutes
ChrisWelty: RESOLVED: accept last meeting minutes

ChrisWelty: TOPIC: Liason

ChrisWelty: TOPIC: Actions
DaveReynolds: Action-987 closed
trackbot: ACTION-987 Fix and respond to editorial changes in swc closed
DaveReynolds: action-983 closed
trackbot: ACTION-983 Ask Susan M whether her implementation can do this. closed
DaveReynolds: action-831 making progress but one proof needs finishing

ChrisWelty: TOPIC: Public Comments
ChrisWelty: http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wiki/Public_Comments
ChrisWelty: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-comments/2010Feb/
ChrisWelty: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-comments/2010Feb/0003.html
 Chris: Public comment from Dan Connolly, no response yet
 Chris: correction, responded to in March, will ask him to confirm acceptance
 Jos: did respond to editorial comments on SWC, Ian confirmed acceptance (though not visible in public list)
Zakim: +Hassan_Ait-Kaci

ChrisWelty: TOPIC: At risk features
ChrisWelty: PROPOSED: keep the strictness requirement (feature at risk) reworded as "a conformant implementation must reject a RIF document that contains features that it does not support"
josb: Ian sent an email 2010-03-05 confirming that the OWL WG was satisfied with how we addressed their comment
josb: it was sent to the comments list
josb: q+
 Jos: the current requirement is framed as two bullets, how does this proposed change fit?
ChrisWelty: replace "A conformant RIF-BLD consumer must reject all inputs that do not match the syntax of BLD. If it implements extensions, it may do so under user control -- having a "strict BLD" mode and a "run-with-extensions" mode. "
josb: I will abstain
Gary: +1 to the proposal
ChrisWelty: PROPOSED: Replace "A conformant RIF-BLD consumer must reject all inputs that do not match the syntax of BLD. If it implements extensions, it may do so under user control -- having a "strict BLD" mode and a "run-with-extensions" mode. " with "a conformant implementation must reject a RIF document that contains features that it does not support"
 Harold: this applies to each spec, not just BLD, the same phrasing is in each.
Harold: +1
 Jos: This does not change the requirement, simply changes explanatory text, we still require consumers to only support the datatypes in DTB.
 Jos: this restriction on datatypes is still stated in the first sentence, the proposed phrasing does not change that.
 Leora: should have an explicit "unless" to clarify that the relation between the first sentence and this new sentence.
 Chris: Believes Sandro's aim is that the spec should require you to not fail silently.
 Jos: Replace entire bullet by the new phrase?
 Harold: clarifies Leora's comment that Sandro's proposed sentence replaces *both* the final two sentences of the bullet.
josb: I would propose the replace the 2nd and 3rd bullet of the RIF-BLD specific clauses with "a conformant implementation must reject a RIF document that contains features that it does not support"
 Chris: "feature" here probably means datatypes and externals
ChrisWelty: A conformant RIF implementation must reject any document containing datatypes or builtins it does not support.
ChrisWelty: A conformant RIF-BLD consumer must reject any document containing datatypes or builtins it does not support.
ChrisWelty: A conformant BLD consumer must reject any document containing datatypes or builtins it does not support.
Gary: I prefer feature. E.g. if you receive Neg and don't support it, you must reject, not ignore the Neg
ChrisWelty: A conformant BLD consumer must reject any document containing features it does not support.
ChrisWelty: PRoposal is to replace the two bullets in RIF-BLD specific clauses with this text
Gary: +1 
josb: +1
Zakim: + +0122427aaaa
Gary: and other specs that have copy/paste these bullets, right?
ChrisWelty: clarification: gary, do you want to remove the third bullet about producers, or leave it?
 Dave: just replace second bullet by this?  Leave producer restriction in there?
josb: I don't mind two much about the third bullet, although I have a slight preference for getting rid of it
ChrisWelty: gary?
ChrisWelty: Yuting, who are you?
Yuting: Yuting Zhao from Aberdeen, Jeff Pan's group
ChrisWelty: ah, ok
 Leora: voted for proposal to replace both bullets (not appearing on IRC)
AdrianP: there is some echo
AdrianP: +1
Gary: mild preference to leave 3rd bullet as is
josb: FINE
ChrisWelty: ok, new proposal replace only second bullet with new text
Harold: +1
ChrisWelty: PROPOSAL: replace bullet 2 in "RIF-BLD Specific Clauses" with "A conformant BLD consumer must reject any document containing features it does not support"
Zakim: -Leora_Morgenstern
ChrisWelty: +1
DaveReynolds: +1 (not as scribe)
AdrianP: +1
_mdean: +1
StellaMitchell: +1
Harold: +1
ChrisWelty: +1 (Leora Morgenstern, by phone)
ChrisWelty: sandro: +1 (W3C, email proxy)
josb: +1
Gary: +1
Yuting: +1
ChrisWelty: RESOLVED: replace bullet 2 in "RIF-BLD Specific Clauses" with "A conformant BLD consumer must reject any document containing features it does not support"
ChrisWelty: action: harold to remove at risk feature as per resolution
trackbot: Created ACTION-996 - Remove at risk feature as per resolution [on Harold Boley - due 2010-03-30].
ChrisWelty: gary, can you do it for PRD?

ChrisWelty: TOPIC: PR
Gary: ok
ChrisWelty: PROPOSED: Request transition to PR for Core
Harold: +1
ChrisWelty: +1 (IBM)
Harold: (NRC)
josb: +1 (myself)
ChrisWelty: sandro: +1 (W3C, email proxy)
Yuting: +1
ChrisWelty: zakim, who is on the phone?
Zakim: On the phone I see Mike_Dean, DaveReynolds, Harold, ChrisWelty, AdrianP, josb, Hassan_Ait-Kaci, +0122427aaaa
DaveReynolds: +1 (myself)
AdrianP: +1 (myself)
StellaMitchell: +1 (self)
_mdean: +1 (SRI)
Gary: +1 - Oracle
_mdean:  
Zakim: +Leora_Morgenstern
Yuting: +0122427aaaa is me, Yuting Zhao from Aberdeen
ChrisWelty: zakim, aaaa is Yuting
Zakim: +Yuting; got it
ChrisWelty: +1 (Leora Morgenstern, self, on phone)
ChrisWelty: RESOLVED: Request transition to PR for Core
josb: q+
 Jos: what's the timescales?
ChrisWelty: PROPOSED: Request transition to PR for BLD
 Chris: two weeks to publish, then schedule PR meeting, so 2-4 weeks.
ChrisWelty: +1 (IBM)
Harold: +1 (NRC)
josb: +1 (self)
StellaMitchell: +1 (self)
ChrisWelty: sandro: +1 (W3C, email proxy)
josb: q?
DaveReynolds: +1 (self)
ChrisWelty: +1 (Leora Morgenstern, self, on phone)
josb: q-
_mdean: +1 (SRI)
Yuting: +1 (aberdeen)
AdrianP: +1 (self)
ChrisWelty: RESOLVED: Request transition to PR for BLD
ChrisWelty: PROPOSED: Request transition to PR for PRD
ChrisWelty: +1 (IBM)
DaveReynolds: +1 (self)
Harold: +1 (NRC)
ChrisWelty: sandro: +1 (W3C, email proxy)
josb: +1 (self)
StellaMitchell: +1 (self)
ChrisWelty: +1 (Leora Morgenstern, self, on phone)
AdrianP: +1 (self)
Zakim: -Leora_Morgenstern
_mdean: +1 (SRI)
Yuting: +1 (aberdeen)
ChrisWelty: RESOLVED: Request transition to PR for PRD
ChrisWelty: PROPOSED: Request transition to PR for DTB
ChrisWelty: +1 (IBM)
StellaMitchell: +1 (self)
DaveReynolds: +1 (self)
Harold: +1 (NRC)
Yuting: +1 (Aberdeen)
AdrianP: +1 (self)
_mdean: +1 (SRI)
ChrisWelty: sandro: +1 (W3C, email proxy)
josb: +1 (self)
ChrisWelty: RESOLVED: Request transition to PR for DTB
Gary: +1 - Oracle
ChrisWelty: PROPOSED: Request transition to PR for SWC
ChrisWelty: +1 (IBM)
AdrianP: +1 (self)
Gary: +1 - Oracle
josb: +1 (self)
Yuting: +1 (Aberdeen)
StellaMitchell: +1 (self)
_mdean: +1 (SRI)
DaveReynolds: +1 (self)
ChrisWelty: Sandro: +1 (W3C - email proxy)
Zakim: +Leora_Morgenstern
Harold: + 2 (Michael: +1 email proxy, for all rtransition requests)
ChrisWelty: Leora: +1 (self - by phone)
Gary: +1 - Oracle - PRD
ChrisWelty: RESOLVED: Request transition to PR for SWC
ChrisWelty: RESOLVED: Request transition to PR for FLD
ChrisWelty: PROPOSED: Request transition to PR for FLD
josb: +1 (self)
DaveReynolds: +1 (self)
Harold: +2 (Michael: +1 email proxy, for all transition requests)
ChrisWelty: +1 (IBM)
Yuting: +1 (Aberdeen)
AdrianP: +1 (self)
StellaMitchell: +1 (self)
Gary: +1 - Oracle
ChrisWelty: sandro: +1 (W3C - email proxy)
ChrisWelty: Leora: +1 (self - phone)
ChrisWelty: RESOLVED: Request transition to PR for FLD
 Chris: congratulations! Especially to all the editors.
Zakim: -josb
Zakim: +??P19
 Chris: revert to fortnightly telecons from now on
 Chris: work on final documents - OWL 2 RL, use cases (need to decide), Primer, RDF Syntax

ChrisWelty: TOPIC: RIF Primer
 Chris: strong feedback on need for primer to make RIF accessible to target audience
Leora_M: and just in time, I can now type on the IRC
 Leora: Sketched suggested Primer outline via email. Would like to work with someone who can represent the target audience.
 Chris: willing to help
AdrianP: Hi Leora, would be interested to join as editor of primer - contributing things from UCR and lectures about Rif
 Harold: also interested in contributing
Leora_M: Okay, so so far we have the following people  interested: Chris Welty, Adrian, Harold, me
 Chris: RIF primer should be even simpler than OWL primer, very example driven, target to people such as linked data community
 Chris: get large body of interested users then implementations will follow
 Leora: should get into nuts and bolts of how to use RIF, so somewhat different from OWL Primer focus
AdrianP: yes, we need to skip details which are not needed for using RIF
Harold: Examples can give use this focus on the RIF essentials.
 Chris: asks if at least Leora can get access to Silk BLD implementation to test examples
AdrianP: a running business rules example would be a good such as typical e-commerce rule set (discount rules or something like this)

TOPIC: AOB
 Chris: confirm timing for next telecon via email
 Chris: adjourned

Zakim: -Hassan_Ait-Kaci
Zakim: -josb
Zakim: -AdrianP
AdrianP: bye
ChrisWelty: rrsagent, make logs public
Zakim: -Leora_Morgenstern
Yuting: bye
Zakim: -Harold
ChrisWelty: zakim, list attendees
Zakim: As of this point the attendees have been Mike_Dean, Harold, DaveReynolds, ChrisWelty, josb, AdrianP, Leora_Morgenstern, Hassan_Ait-Kaci, +0122427aaaa, Yuting
Zakim: -Yuting
Zakim: -Mike_Dean
ChrisWelty: Argh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I forgot to invite RRSAGENT!