- From: Michael Kifer <kifer@cs.sunysb.edu>
- Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 19:53:14 -0500
- To: "Ginsberg, Allen" <AGINSBERG@imc.mitre.org>
- Cc: public-rif-wg@w3.org
> Bottom line: the section on intended models clearly relates only to > some dialect(s) of RIF. That should at least be made clear in the > document. It is made clear that this refers to all dialects. Classical logic is a special case where all models are intended (and it is stated in that very section). > P.S. Appeals to authority, putting words in someone's mouth, > statements as to what most "real" so-and-so's think, and innuendos, do > not amount to valid arguments for anything. That is something one > learns in elementary logic under the rubric "Informal Fallacies of > Reasoning." I didn't appeal to authorities. I was hoping that you would take my word for it (even though I am not a logician). --michael > -----Original Message----- > From: kifer@cs.sunysb.edu [mailto:kifer@cs.sunysb.edu] > Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 6:15 PM > To: Ginsberg, Allen > Cc: public-rif-wg@w3.org > Subject: Re: ACTION-219: review of CORE (more) > > > > > > > > > You didn't divulged too many details, but if what you are proposing > > makes > > > any sense, then a large number of idiots has been working on the > > problem > > > for 40 years for nothing. This includes John McCarthy, Vladimir > > Lifschitz, > > > Mel Fitting, Ray Reiter, and I just scratched the top of the list. > > > > > (Sorry for the sarcasm.) > > > > All I am saying is that logic tells me what follows from what. If > you > > say that "p" follows, in some sense, from "p := not q" then you are > > not using "not" in the same way as logic does. > > > You are identifying logic==first-order-predicate-calculus. > This is a very narrow view. Most people who call themselves "a > logician" > won't agree with you. > > > > I never meant to imply that the people working on these > formalizations > > of reasoning (as opposed to logic) are wasting their time - I did say > I > > was playing "devil's advocate". But I don't think those formalisms > > offer the only approach to dealing with these issues. And it very > well > > could be that, in the end, i.e., at the application level, solutions > > based on pragmatics are always required (or better). > > > There are already sound solutions that are far better than your > pragmatics. > > > > > > In what sense what you have in mind is more classical than, say, > the > > > > stable model semantics? > > > > > > As far as I understand it, stable model "semantics" is basically a > > > procedural add-on to classical semantics involving an > implementation of > > > the closed-world-assumption. It is, if you will, a way of > implementing > > > the assumption that everything that you know nothing about is > false. > > > Classical semantics makes no such assumption. > > > > > Your understanding doesn't come from reading papers on this subject > then. > > > Or, if it does then you completely misunderstood these papers. > > > > That is entirely possible. I am not an expert on that. But from > what > > I have read (including the Fitting survey you referenced) it does > seem > > to be a way of formalizing the closed-world-assumption, and that > > assumption is not consistent with classical semantics, i.e., logic. > > Good morning! :-) > Of course this is not classical semantics! > We have been talking about this for months in this group. > > But your "i.e., logic" is not shared by logicians. (I am not calling > myself > a "logician". I just know something about logic. I mean *real* > logicians.) > > > --michael > >
Received on Tuesday, 13 February 2007 00:53:22 UTC