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Re: Reproducing Gregg/Niklas' thoughts (@itemref issue) (ISSUE-144)

From: Dan Brickley <danbri@danbri.org>
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2012 23:43:20 +0000
Message-ID: <CAFfrAFrVis_8rO5kFCtMtXqU8d7vA5Shj9mHb9sorHjuYFt2+g@mail.gmail.com>
To: Gregg Kellogg <gregg@greggkellogg.net>
Cc: W3C RDFa WG <public-rdfa-wg@w3.org>
On 7 Dec 2012 22:30, "Gregg Kellogg" <gregg@greggkellogg.net> wrote:
>
> I'v updated my distiller at http://rdf.greggkellogg.net/distiller with
support for rdf:ref. To make this work, be sure to check the "Expand graph"
checkbox.
>
> All in all, implementing it took about an hour, most of which was for
creating tests. It provides essentially equivalent functionality to
@itemref, but in a more RDF-friendly way. I recommend adding support for
the feature to HTML5+RDFa.

Nice!

What happens if there are several refs inside several prototypes?

Dan

> Gregg Kellogg
> gregg@greggkellogg.net
>
> On Dec 7, 2012, at 2:12 PM, Gregg Kellogg <gregg@greggkellogg.net> wrote:
>
> > I added experimental support to my parser (will deploy to distiller
later) as part of vocabulary expansion. I pretty much implement Ivan's
algorithm as part of RDFa vocabulary expansion, with the following
difference:
> >
> > I modified the DELETE clause to remove the rdfa:Prototype on the
subject resource as well:
> >
> > DELETE DATA {
> >  ?x rdfa:ref ?PR .
> >  ?x rdf:type rdfa:Prototype .
> >  ?PR ?p ?y .
> > }
> >
> > Here are some example tests, based on those used by the Microdata RDF
note:
> >
> > To a single ID:
> >
> >          <div>
> >            <div typeof="schema:Person">
> >              <link property="rdfa:ref" resource="_:a"/>
> >            </div>
> >            <p resource="_:a" typeof="rdfa:Prototype">Name: <span
property="schema:name">Amanda</span></p>
> >          </div>
> >
> > should produce
> >
> >          @prefix schema: <http://schema.org/> .
> >          [a schema:Person; schema:name "Amanda"] .
> >
> > Adds additional property:
> >
> >        <div>
> >          <div typeof="schema:Person">
> >            <p>My name is <span property="schema:name">Gregg</span></p>
> >            <link property="rdfa:ref" resource="_:surname"/>
> >          </div>
> >          <p resource="_:surname" typeof="rdfa:Prototype">My name is
<span property="schema:name">Kellogg</span></p>
> >        </div>
> >
> > should produce
> >
> >          @prefix schema: <http://schema.org/> .
> >          [ a schema:Person; schema:name "Gregg", "Kellogg"] .
> >
> > Multiple subjects with different types:
> >
> >          <div>
> >            <div typeof="schema:Person">
> >              <link property="rdfa:ref" resource="_:a"/>
> >            </div>
> >            <div typeof="foaf:Person">
> >              <link property="rdfa:ref" resource="_:a"/>
> >            </div>
> >            <p resource="_:a" typeof="rdfa:Prototype">Name: <span
property="schema:name foaf:name">Amanda</span></p>
> >          </div>
> >
> > should produce
> >
> >          @prefix foaf: <http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/> .
> >          @prefix schema: <http://schema.org/> .
> >          [ a schema:Person; schema:name "Amanda"; foaf:name "Amanda"] .
> >          [ a foaf:Person; schema:name "Amanda"; foaf:name "Amanda"] .
> >
> > Multiple references:
> >
> >          <div>
> >            <div typeof="schema:Person">
> >              <link property="rdfa:ref" resource="_:a"/>
> >              <link property="rdfa:ref" resource="_:b"/>
> >            </div>
> >            <p resource="_:a" typeof="rdfa:Prototype">Name: <span
property="schema:name">Amanda</span></p>
> >            <p resource="_:b" typeof="rdfa:Prototype"><span
property="schema:band">Jazz Band</span></p>
> >          </div>
> >
> > should produce
> >
> >          @prefix schema: <http://schema.org/> .
> >          [ a schema:Person;
> >            schema:name "Amanda";
> >            schema:band "Jazz Band";
> >          ] .
> >
> >
> > With chaining:
> >
> >          <div>
> >            <div typeof="schema:Person">
> >              <link property="rdfa:ref" resource="_:a"/>
> >              <link property="rdfa:ref" resource="_:b"/>
> >            </div>
> >            <p resource="_:a" typeof="rdfa:Prototype">Name: <span
property="schema:name">Amanda</span></p>
> >            <div resource="_:b" typeof="rdfa:Prototype">
> >              <div property="schema:band" typeof=" schema:MusicGroup">
> >                <link property="rdfa:ref" resource="_:c"/>
> >              </div>
> >            </div>
> >            <div resource="_:c" typeof="rdfa:Prototype">
> >             <p>Band: <span property="schema:name">Jazz Band</span></p>
> >             <p>Size: <span property="schema:size">12</span> players</p>
> >            </div>
> >          </div>
> >
> > should produce
> >
> >          @prefix schema: <http://schema.org/> .
> >          [ a schema:Person;
> >            schema:name "Amanda" ;
> >            schema:band [
> >              a schema:MusicGroup;
> >              schema:name "Jazz Band";
> >              schema:size "12"
> >            ]
> >          ] .
> >
> > Shared resource:
> >
> >          <div>
> >            <div typeof=""><link property="rdfa:ref"
resource="_:a"/></div>
> >            <div typeof=""><link property="rdfa:ref"
resource="_:a"/></div>
> >            <div resource="_:a" typeof="rdfa:Prototype">
> >              <div property="schema:refers-to" typeof="">
> >                <span property="schema:name">Amanda</span>
> >              </div>
> >            </div>
> >          </div>
> >
> > should produce:
> >
> >          @prefix schema: <http://schema.org/> .
> >          [ schema:refers-to _:a ] .
> >          [ schema:refers-to _:a ] .
> >          _:a schema:name "Amanda"
> >
> >
> > I'll have my updated distiller released support this later today.
> >
> > Gregg
> >
> > On Dec 7, 2012, at 11:22 AM, Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> On Dec 7, 2012, at 14:00 , Dan Brickley wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> On 7 Dec 2012 15:21, "Ivan Herman" <ivan@w3.org> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi guys,
> >>>>
> >>>> I tried to reproduce what Gregg/Niklas were considering yesterday
and, I believe, here are the rules that we may define and then use a
post-processing step on the resulting graph that execute those:
> >>>>
> >>>> INSERT DATA {
> >>>> ?x ?p ?y .
> >>>> }
> >>>> DELETE DATA {
> >>>> ?x rdfa:ref ?PR .
> >>>> ?PR ?p ?y .
> >>>> }
> >>>> WHERE {
> >>>> ?x rdfa:ref ?PR .
> >>>> ?PR ?p ?y.
> >>>> ?PR a rdfa:Prototype .
> >>>> }
> >>>>
> >>>> Ie, if I have somewhere:
> >>>>
> >>>> <div resource="#p" typeof="rdfa:Prototype">
> >>>>   <span property="foo">bar</span>
> >>>> </div>
> >>>
> >>> ....ah, so you're using special terms in an rdf vocab, to avoid
making extra syntax?
> >>>
> >>> If this <div> had nested subelements, which part would be in the
Prototype?
> >>
> >> Everything. The whole lot:-)
> >
> >>>
> >>>> ...
> >>>> ...
> >>>>
> >>>> <div resource="#A">
> >>>>   <span property="yep">Yep Yep</span>
> >>>>   <span property="rdfa:ref" resource="#p"/>
> >>>> </div>
> >>>>
> >>>> then what I would the following graph:
> >>>>
> >>>> <#A>
> >>>> <yep> "Yep Yep" ;
> >>>> <foo> "bar" .
> >>>>
> >>>> <#p> a rdfa:Prototype ;
> >>>> <foo> "bar" .
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Which is roughly a @itemref as we know it. I think it works and can
be implemented without too much problems.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for investigating this issue!
> >>>
> >>>> Here, though, the problems I see with this. I do not consider these
as show stoppers but we have to realize those
> >>>>
> >>>> - As you see, the triples on the prototype itself also make it in
the final graph. I am not sure it is o.k., but I also do not know how to
remove them. We could define, in the SPARQL 1.1 terms, some sort of a
property path based DELETE DATA clause, but implementation of that might be
a bit difficult. I am not sure it is worth it.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> I assume SPARQL is purely for documentational convenience / spec
here, and not a real dependency?
> >>
> >> Yes. At the moment, that is the only syntax that can express all these
rules (cannot express removal in N3:-(
> >
> > Pretty easy to do; I just create an additional rule to match the
statements to be removed, and remove them from my output graph.
> >
> >>>
> >>>> - The pattern I used above is of course fine. But what happens if
the user does the following:
> >>>>
> >>>> <div property="rdf:type" resource="rdfa:Prototype>
> >>>> <span property="foo">bar</span>
> >>>> </div>
> >>>>
> >>>> the subject, ie, the ?PR in the SPARQL pattern, would be anything
that was inherited, which may lead to funny situations. In other words, we
do give a rope to the user to hand himself, although I agree that this is
very much a corner case.
> >>> I do worry about mixing vocab and syntax for such reasons.
> >>>
> >>>> - Would the execution of those rules be a required feature? If so,
we would have to talk to the Google implementers (via DanBri) whether they
would implement this at all. If not, the major use case of introducing this
falls...
> >>> I don't fully understand. But I'd like to work this through next week
with examples...
> >>
> >> O.k.
> >>
> >> For reference, there was another approach:
> >>
> >> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2012Nov/0003.html
> >>
> >> which was based on the idea of a DOM manipulation *before* any type of
RDFa processing, but reproducing a similar feature to @itemref. There are
also issues with that one
> >>
> >> - does not work (well) if a streaming parser is used
> >> - for any implementation that is in a browser, it should start by
duplicating the DOM and work on that one; indeed, manipulating the DOM that
is also used for display is not a good idea:-(
> >>
> >> I am not 100% which of the two approaches I prefer (if we do anything,
that is). I still tend to prefer the DOM manipulation one that seems to
have less caveats for me, but that is just a mild preference...
> >>
> >> Ivan
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> cheers,
> >>>
> >>> Dan
> >>>
> >>>> Food for thought...
> >>>>
> >>>> Ivan
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ----
> >>>> Ivan Herman, W3C Semantic Web Activity Lead
> >>>> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
> >>>> mobile: +31-641044153
> >>>> FOAF: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf.rdf
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----
> >> Ivan Herman, W3C Semantic Web Activity Lead
> >> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
> >> mobile: +31-641044153
> >> FOAF: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf.rdf
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
Received on Friday, 7 December 2012 23:43:50 UTC

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