W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-rdf-wg@w3.org > August 2012

Re: A radical proposal.

From: Charles Greer <cgreer@marklogic.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 09:58:07 -0700
Message-ID: <502E781F.2070602@marklogic.com>
To: Pat Hayes <phayes@ihmc.us>
CC: Sandro Hawke <sandro@w3.org>, W3C RDF WG <public-rdf-wg@w3.org>

On 08/17/2012 09:20 AM, Pat Hayes wrote:
> Perhaps we should not define a graph to BE a set, but rather define it to be any RDF document or structure which *parses* to a set. So we keep the idea of the set-based abstract syntax, but we morph the terminology to be more in line with the way most of the world actually speaks and thinks.
+1 This sits well with me.  People understand that a name can be for a 
value or for a variable, and instance and a class, so we need not 
belabor the issue too much.  We also don't have trouble distinguishing 
between class and object.  A URI might represent where you got a graph, 
what you got from that URI, what you're storing locally as a snapshot of 
it.  These all seem like valid semantics for the URI.

> It would take us a while to get used to this change, but I think that once we had gotten used to it, we and everyone else would feel a great sense of relief. And Richard and myself would have to rewrite parts of the Concepts and Semantics text, but again I dont think it would be very difficult.
I'm already used to it.  It seems to imply that we don't need the line 
between graph/space and between dataset/graph store (in David's 
proposal), and that 'naming' although agnostic on mutability, only 
appears once in the diagram.    Moreover, if one really must uniquely 
identify a specific set of triples, for good, we can look to 
document-based mechanisms (signing bytes).


On Aug 17, 2012, at 8:31 AM, Sandro Hawke wrote:

>> On 08/17/2012 09:09 AM, Steve Harris wrote:
>>> It's probably all academic, I'd be willing to bet that whatever this group decides, everyone outside it will continue to refer to them as "Graph URIs" - and please don't bother telling me all the ways in which that's incorrect:)
>> I think you're right, and it makes me miserable.    It seems unlikely we'll come up with any terms that actually resonate with people and are adopted.
>> My favorite idea here is to call g-snaps "graph states".    People deeply understand that a "state" is an abstract mathematical concept, so when you say you're changing a graph state, they know you really mean you're changing the graph from one state to another.
>> Then I'm not sure if a g-box gets called a "graph container" or just a "graph".   Calling it a "graph container" is nice, because it makes it more clear that "graph" is ambiguous.   But then it seems like we ought to call g-snap "graph container state".
>> (But I know, I know, this would betray all the people who've actually been following the guidance of the 2004 spec.   It would have lots of its own problems.)
>>      -- Sandro
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Charles Greer
Senior Engineer
MarkLogic Corporation
Phone: +1 707 408 3277

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Received on Friday, 17 August 2012 16:58:40 UTC

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