Re: Blog post about "Provenance in RDF-star"

On 28/01/2022 16:34, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
> On 1/28/22 3:01 AM, Pierre-Antoine Champin wrote:
>>
>> Hi Kingsley
>>
>> On 26/01/2022 22:42, Kingsley Idehen wrote:
>>> On 1/26/22 3:34 PM, Pierre-Antoine Champin wrote:
>>>> Dear all,
>>>>
>>>> following a discussion during our two last calls, I published a 
>>>> post about "Provenance in RDF-star":
>>>>
>>>> https://www.w3.org/community/rdf-dev/2022/01/26/provenance-in-rdf-star/ 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> quoting the intro:
>>>>
>>>> > In this post, we present some lessons learned by the group 
>>>> through discussions and exchanges. This is meant to give some 
>>>> insight about the rationale behind RDF-star, and some guidelines 
>>>> about how to best use it for modeling provenance data.
>>>>
>>>> Many thanks to all the participants of the RDF-star group for their 
>>>> reviews and feedback on this post.
>>>>
>>>>   pa
>>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Pierre-Antoine,
>>>
>>> An opening example in that blog post:
>>>
>>> PREFIX : <http://www.example.org/>
>>>
>>> << :employee38 :jobTitle "Assistant Designer" >>
>>>     :accordingTo :employee22, :employee38 ;
>>>     :confidence 0.8 .
>>>
>>> My variant using RDF as it exists.
>>>
>>> ## RDF-Turtle Start ##
>>>
>>> # PREFIX : <http://www.example.org/>
>>> PREFIX schema: <http://schema.org/>
>>> PREFIX : <#>
>>>
>>> [
>>>   :jobTitle "Assistant Designer" ;
>>>   schema:identifier :employee38  # if desired, 
>>> inverse-functional-property semantics can be applied to the 
>>> schema:identifier relation.
>>> ] :accordingTo :employee22, :employee38 ;
>>>   :confidence 0.8 .
>>>
>>> ## RDF-Turtle End ##
>>>
>>> What is the difference between both? Is it that your RDF-Star 
>>> example expresses a statement (*utterance*) while mine expresses a 
>>> fact (*proposition*)?
>>>
>> The answer to this question does not depend, in my view, on the use 
>> of RDF-star vs. plain RDF, but it depends on the particular ontology 
>> you are using. More specifically, what is the domain of :accordingTo 
>> and :confidence? That's the answer to your question.
>>
>> (although, in the RDF-star case, the answer might be a little 
>> convoluted, as discussed with Antoine [1]; something like e.g. 
>> ":confidence links a triple to the confidence level we have in the 
>> proposition made by this triple").$
>>
>> The real difference that RDF-star makes, IMO, is that it provides 
>> homogeneity between the things you talk about and the things you 
>> assert. E.g:
>>
>>   << :employee38 :jobTitle "Assistant Designer" >> :confidence 0.8.
>>   :employee22 :jobTitle "Senior Manager" {| :confidence 1.0 |}.
>>
>> best
>>
>> [1] 
>> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-star/2022Jan/0095.html

>>
>
> Are you saying that:
>
> RDF-star is syntax-sugar for homogenizing an utterance (or statement) 
> and fact (or proposition) ?
>
No, I'm not saying that. If it was, strictly speaking, syntactic sugar, 
it would mean that any RDF-star graph could be rewritten to an 
*equivalent* RDF graph.

This is not the case, at least, not according to the way RDF-star is 
defined in the CG report, because RDF-star extends the RDF abstract syntax.

Also, I'm not saying that because the homogenization is not between 
utterances and facts, but between asserted triples and unasserted 
triples. Whether unasserted triples represent utterances, facts, 
claims... is orthogonal IMO, as I tried to explain in the first part of 
my previous email.

>
> Kingsley
>
>>> "A *statement* occurs at a particular time and place.  But a *fact* 
>>> is independent of time and place." [1]
>>>
>>>
>>> Links:
>>>
>>> [1] 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ontolog-forum/d37df77c62aa4cdab97ad92a30821600%40bestweb.net 
>>> -- John F. Sowa post about statements and facts
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Kingsley Idehen 
>>> Founder & CEO
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>
> -- 
> Regards,
>
> Kingsley Idehen 
> Founder & CEO
> OpenLink Software
> Home Page:http://www.openlinksw.com

> Community Support:https://community.openlinksw.com

> Weblogs (Blogs):
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>
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>                http://kidehen.blogspot.com

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>