- From: Martynas Jusevičius <martynas@atomgraph.com>
- Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2019 22:18:31 +0200
- To: Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
- Cc: public-rdf-star@w3.org
Yes the syntax was more of an "abstract" example. OK, I guess it makes more sense with rdf:Statement. I don't have more to add as I haven't really studied the RDF* semantics :) On Sat, Aug 17, 2019 at 8:45 PM Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com> wrote: > > On 8/17/19 12:19 PM, Martynas Jusevičius wrote: > > Kingsley, > > don't you mean > > [ a foaf:Person; foaf:name "Alice"] :claims { [a foaf:Person; > foaf:name "Bob"; foaf:age "23"^^xsd:integer] . } . > > Note the graph designation. > > > Not as presented syntactically as that isn't RDF-Turtle notation. > > Here's are document URL that includes content representing what Olaf and I are discussing, using RDF-Turtle notation or Nanotation (i.e, "text/plain" file that's readable as is or via our OSDS Browser Extension for visualization): > > My original statements in documents without reification : > > 1. https://kingsley.idehen.net/public_home/kidehen/Public/Linked%20Data%20Documents/Tutorials/label-property-graph-stuff/alice-claims-about-bob.txt -- RDF-Turtle Nanotation in plain text (i.e., "text/plain" content-type) > > 2. https://kingsley.idehen.net/public_home/kidehen/Public/Linked%20Data%20Documents/Tutorials/label-property-graph-stuff/alice-claims-about-bob.ttl -- RDF-Turtle (i.e., "text/turtle" content-type) > > > Documents comprising reified statements (as per what Olaf is speaking about primarily) using terms from the RDF Vocabulary: > > 1. https://kingsley.idehen.net/public_home/kidehen/Public/Linked%20Data%20Documents/Tutorials/label-property-graph-stuff/alice-claims-about-bob-reified.txt -- RDF-Turtle Nanotation in plain text (i.e., "text/plain" content-type) > > 2. https://kingsley.idehen.net/public_home/kidehen/Public/Linked%20Data%20Documents/Tutorials/label-property-graph-stuff/alice-claims-about-bob-reified.ttl -- RDF-Turtle Nanotation in plain text (i.e., "text/plain" content-type) > > > As I see it, the issue we are debating is primarily about reification and syntax sugar for articulation convenience i.e., does this actually constitute what's denoted as RDF* Semantics (for which I am currently unconvinced, bearing in mind what exists regarding the roles of RDF [DDL] and SPARQL [DML] which offers Named Graphs as a solution). > > > Kingsley > > > > On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 5:02 PM Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com> wrote: > > On 8/8/19 6:13 AM, Olaf Hartig wrote: > > On Wed, 2019-08-07 at 12:04 -0400, Kingsley Idehen wrote: > > [...] > > But that's just another RDF sentence/statement constructed from blank > nodes (indefinite pronouns): > > @prefix : <#> . > > [ a foaf:Person; foaf:name "Alice"] :claims [a foaf:Person; foaf:name > "Bob"; foaf:age "23"^^xsd:integer] . > > [...] > > It states that a Person named "Alice" :claims a Person named "Bob" has > age 23 expressed as in integer. > > I disagree. It states that a Person named "Alice" :claims something and > this something is of rdf:type foaf:Person. So, what she is claiming is a > person rather than being about a person. > > I hope you are not interpreting :clams somewhat whimsically, since I > didn't actually assert that the rdfs:range of :claims is an > rdf:Statement instance in my original example sentence. I could have > written my example as follows, to be more precise: > > @prefix : <#> . > > :claims a rdf:Property ; > rdfs:range owl:Thing . > > [ a foaf:Person; foaf:name "Alice"] :claims [a foaf:Person; foaf:name > "Bob"; foaf:age "23"^^xsd:integer] . > > > If on the other hand I had stated: > > @prefix : <#> . > > :claims a rdf:Property ; > rdfs:range owl:Thing . > > [ a foaf:Person; foaf:name "Alice"] :claims [a foaf:Person; foaf:name > "Bob"; foaf:age "23"^^xsd:integer] . > > > Then I would be articulating what you assumed, and my sentence would then be incorrect :) > > BTW -- I can also do all of this in a document (as per SPARQL Named > Graphs) and just pepper the document with additional metadata for > provenance purposes. Basically, why aren't SPARQL Named Graphs a viable > solution to this problem i.e., RDF stays as is for data definition while > languages such as SPARQL handle operations on RDF structured data? > > > [...] > > I guess what you actually wanted to write was something > like the following: > > [ a foaf:Person; foaf:name "Alice"] > :claims [ a rdf:Statement ; > rdf:subject :Bob ; > rdf:predicate foaf:age ; > rdf:object "23"^^xsd:integer ] . > > No, that is just a reified version of my initial statement. > > Are you saying that you consider the set of triples serialized as this > piece of Turtle to be semantically equivalent to the set of triples > serialized in the piece of Turtle above? > > Of course not. > > > Kingsley > > [...] > > By the definition of the RDF* data model, every RDF graph is an RDF* > graph. Additionally, by the definition of the RDF*-to-RDF mapping, every > RDF* graph can be viewed as an RDF graph. > > Sorta, but this is serious work to be done explaining all of this in a > manner that prevents the confusion I fear. > > Point taken. > > Olaf > > > > -- > Regards, > > Kingsley Idehen > Founder & CEO > OpenLink Software > Home Page: http://www.openlinksw.com > Community Support: https://community.openlinksw.com > Weblogs (Blogs): > Company Blog: https://medium.com/openlink-software-blog > Virtuoso Blog: https://medium.com/virtuoso-blog > Data Access Drivers Blog: https://medium.com/openlink-odbc-jdbc-ado-net-data-access-drivers > > Personal Weblogs (Blogs): > Medium Blog: https://medium.com/@kidehen > Legacy Blogs: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen/ > http://kidehen.blogspot.com > > Profile Pages: > Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/kidehen/ > Quora: https://www.quora.com/profile/Kingsley-Uyi-Idehen > Twitter: https://twitter.com/kidehen > Google+: https://plus.google.com/+KingsleyIdehen/about > LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen > > Web Identities (WebID): > Personal: http://kingsley.idehen.net/public_home/kidehen/profile.ttl#i > : http://id.myopenlink.net/DAV/home/KingsleyUyiIdehen/Public/kingsley.ttl#this > > > > > -- > Regards, > > Kingsley Idehen > Founder & CEO > OpenLink Software > Home Page: http://www.openlinksw.com > Community Support: https://community.openlinksw.com > Weblogs (Blogs): > Company Blog: https://medium.com/openlink-software-blog > Virtuoso Blog: https://medium.com/virtuoso-blog > Data Access Drivers Blog: https://medium.com/openlink-odbc-jdbc-ado-net-data-access-drivers > > Personal Weblogs (Blogs): > Medium Blog: https://medium.com/@kidehen > Legacy Blogs: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen/ > http://kidehen.blogspot.com > > Profile Pages: > Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/kidehen/ > Quora: https://www.quora.com/profile/Kingsley-Uyi-Idehen > Twitter: https://twitter.com/kidehen > Google+: https://plus.google.com/+KingsleyIdehen/about > LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen > > Web Identities (WebID): > Personal: http://kingsley.idehen.net/public_home/kidehen/profile.ttl#i > : http://id.myopenlink.net/DAV/home/KingsleyUyiIdehen/Public/kingsley.ttl#this >
Received on Saturday, 17 August 2019 20:19:04 UTC