- From: Graham Klyne <GK@ninebynine.org>
- Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 07:09:29 +0100
- To: public-rdf-prov@w3.org
- CC: Sandro Hawke <sandro@w3.org>, W3C provenance WG <public-prov-wg@w3.org>, Andy Seaborne <andy.seaborne@epimorphics.com>
On 21/09/2011 23:27, Sandro Hawke wrote: > [cc'ing public-prov-wg, but reply-to set to public-rdf-prov, where as I > understand it this discussion should proceed.] > > On Wed, 2011-09-21 at 16:49 +0100, Graham Klyne wrote: >> (I've also posted this summary at >> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvenanceRDFNamedGraph#Requirement_from_discussion_with_Andy_Seaborne) >> >> In a meeting with Andy Seaborne this morning, we discussed provenance >> requirements and RDF named graphs, in light of some options that the RDF group > > ( quiet grumble about the use of the undefinable term "named graph"... ) Agree the term is not always hepful. Do we have a better commonly-known term for such discussions? >> might be considering. >> >> The resulting requirement that we articulated was that for the purposes of >> provenance, we must be able to treat two "named" graphs with identical graph >> content as two distinct entities. >> >> ... >> >> The use-case is this: >> >> Suppose we have some resource R. >> >> Observer A makes a provenance assertion about R on Monday 2011-09-19, which is >> expressed as an RDF graph Pra >> >> Observer B makes a provenance assertion about R on Friday 2011-09-23, expressed >> as RDF graph Prb >> >> To express provenance about the provenance assertions, we may wish to say: >> >> Pra statedBy A; onDate "2011-09-19" . >> >> Prb statedBy B; onDate "2011-09-23" . >> >> It may be that the provenance assertions Pra and Prb have identical content; >> i.e. they are RDFG graphs containing identical triple sets. For the purposes of >> provenance recording, it is important that even when they express the same >> graphs, Pra and Prb are distinct RDF nodes. If Pra and Prb are treated as a >> common RDF node, one might then infer: >> >> _:something statedBy A ; onDate "2011-09-23" . >> >> which in this scenario would be false. > > Isn't this just some modeling confusion? Pra and Prb are each an event > of the authoring of a statement (ie they are "statings"), not > statements, based on how you use them, giving them dates and such. > Those two statings can then be connected to the same statement (graph, > G1). > > Pra statement G1; dc:creator A; dc:date "2011-09-19". > Prb statement G1; dc:creator B; dc:date "2011-09-23". > > Then G1 can just be a literal, or whatever we use to allow conversations > about g-snaps. Yes, this is indeed a modelling choice. As I note later, I wasn't dismissing the graph literal approach, just trying be expose the need, which might be addressed in different ways. > >> ..... >> >> A particular consequence of this is that an RDF "named graph" specification >> based on graph literals (where RDF literals are self-denoting), somewhat like >> formulae in Notation 3, would have to be used with care. That is, if Pra and >> Prb are graph literals, then Pra = Prb, and the given provenance-of-provenance >> statements could not be expressed as suggested above. > > It seems to me Pra and Prb are not g-snaps (RDF graphs), so there's no > problem here. Again, an interaction of modelling and design choices. There *could* be a problem, depending on what choices are made. #g -- >> (This does not preclude a graph literal approach being used, but the above >> use-case might need to be constructed slightly differently.) >> >> #g >> -- >> >> > >
Received on Thursday, 22 September 2011 06:12:53 UTC