Re: RDFa and Microformats

Hi Mark,

Mark Birbeck wrote:
> Hi Martin,
>
>   
>>> So really there is no need for the BBC to adopt all out RDFa, just mark-up
>>> the useful  bits in RDFa,  I think its interesting that Fabiens XSLT
>>> resolves prefix-less values to http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/vocab# , this is
>>> good I think because at least it tries to add triples to the graph., but it
>>> could be resolved further by changing  the XSLT style sheet at
>>> http://www.w3.org/2002/12/cal/glean-hcal.xsl, to look for @property and
>>> @content, when determining the values of dtend and dtstart. I can do this
>>> Quite happily.
>>>       
>> Done! see:
>>
>> http://transformr.co.uk/xsl/glean-hcal.xsl
>> http://weborganics.co.uk/demo/hcal.xhtml
>> RDF output
>> http://transformr.co.uk/hcalendar-rdf/http://weborganics.co.uk/demo/hcal.xhtml
>>     
>
> I think this is a really bad idea.
>
> It's well known that Microformats caused problems for authors by
> co-opting the @abbr and @title attributes; why do you want to recreate
> the same problems by 'squatting' the new RDFa attributes for
> Microformats-style hacks?
>   

"Squatting"  I dont know what you mean? and "hacks", yes I liked to do 
that back in the 90's I think people now days call that Development ;-)

Why is that re-creating the same problems, its just moving  data 
attributes to a machine readable area...

> If you want to use @property and @content then by all means do so, but
> use them as defined in RDFa. In your example that would mean adding
> @typeof.
>   
There is really no need to, the @type of is the same as @class="vevent"
> Otherwise, what you are effectively proposing to do amounts to
> accepting that Microformats has run up against limitations, 
No not really I am saying HTML has Limitations that RDFa does not.
> but then
> imagining that it is ok to then pick and choose parts of a more
> generic solution to try to get around the problems.
>
> It's a little ironic, given that we specifically went out of our way
> to ensure that RDFa didn't conflict with Microformats.
>   
It does When you are asking the users of RDFa to mark up vevents like:

<div typeof="event:Vevent">
  <h3 property="event:summary">Have I Got Old News For You</h3>
  <p property="event:location">BBC2</p>
  <p><span property="event:dtstart" content="2008-06-28T21:00:00">Saturday 28 June,
     9</span>-<span property="event:dtend" content="2008-06-28T21:30:00">9.30pm</p>
  <p property="event:description">Team captains Paul Merton and Ian Hislop
     are joined by returning guest host Jeremy Clarkson and
     panellists Danny Baker and Germaine Greer for the
     topical news quiz. <abbr title="in stereo">[S]</abbr></p>
 </div>

http://rdfa.info/wiki/Tutorials#vEvent

Its just seems counter productive to me? It seems RDFa can help the 
wider community by suggesting....

<div class="vevent">
  <h3 class="summary">Have I Got Old News For You</h3>
  <p class="location">BBC2</p>
  <p><span property="dtstart" content="2008-06-28T21:00:00">Saturday 28 
June,
     9</span>-<span property="dtend" 
content="2008-06-28T21:30:00">9.30pm</p>
  <p class="description">Team captains Paul Merton and Ian Hislop
     are joined by returning guest host Jeremy Clarkson and
     panellists Danny Baker and Germaine Greer for the
     topical news quiz. <abbr title="in stereo">[S]</abbr></p>
 </div>

...is an example, This way you help the BBC, you help the Microformats 
Community, and you help RDFa by making it possible for authors with only 
a basic understanding of html can get to grips with RDFa.

Why does It have to be All or nothing? RDFa (so I am now lead to 
believe) is JUST about RDF isn't it? how a publisher extracts that 
information Is up to him?
> Regards,
>
> Mark
>
>   
Best Wishes

Martin McEvoy

Received on Monday, 15 September 2008 00:33:22 UTC