Re: RDFa and Microformats

>> There are a lof of reasons to use RDFa instead Microformats, depending
>> on context and the meaning of "easier".
>> Easier for tools and implementations? Microformats have actually more
>> datas expressed in this way and more tools... but this can be
>> temporary... and RDFa community is deploying tools and 'cut and paste'
>> templates. What do You need exactly?
>>
>
> A free Extension for Dreamweaver would be good, to make it easy for every
> day authors to publish RDFa. :-)

An example to make an Extension for Dreamweaver can be the great
TopBraid Composer [1], but  it's more and more than only an RDFa
editor... with different target respect Dreamweaver. Newbies authors
(and probably a big part of authors in this moment) - need something
like hcalendar-o-matic - or a system using templates, and then the
next step is it.

>> As for my experience - in XHTML writing - RDFa is quite good....
>> First for accessibility: using the @title on acronyms, screen readers
>> read the date in ISO format, not suitable for humans... and this is
>> not good for Microformats.... for other question Steven Pemberton
>> wrote about BBC and Microformats.
>>
>
> And you guys said to the BBC use RDFa, that in my view was not the answer.
> Did the BBC want the output of hcalendar on hcard to be RDF?  or did the BBC
> want their user to be able to export a vcard to their address books, or
> subscribe to iCal or webCal in their calendars? RDFa Can help in my view,
> just by being microformats aware Did anyone ask those questions.

This is not an answer but a fact. It's a little bit different. In the
particular case there is an accessibility issue for acronym. I've a
similar problem on accessibility of my page... another question is the
large use So if you see my homepage is a little bit complicated (using
a lot of Microformats and RDFa), so in my experience I'm rewriting my
page using RDFa in order to get more order.... and it's more good and
without a lot of owl-sameAs (this is eRDF) and is simple to extract.
Also using GRDDL profiles (one for each Microformat) the gleaner must
loads a huge number of XSLT and re-processing of (X)HTML.

> Microformats and RDFa  work amazingly well together, if the output is RDF
>  you have to understand that microformats produce their own triples, its
> particularaly useful in hcalendar I have made an example see:
> http://weborganics.co.uk/demo/hcal.xhtml
>
> this is the mark-up
>
>> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
>> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML+RDFa 1.0//EN"
>>      "http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/DTD/xhtml-rdfa-1.dtd">
>> <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xml:lang="en">
>>    <head profile="http://www.w3.org/2003/g/data-view">
>>        <link rel="transformation"
>> href="http://ns.inria.fr/grddl/rdfa/2008/08/07/RDFa2RDFXML.xsl" />
>>        <title>hCal RDFa</title>
>>    </head>
>>    <body>
>> <div class="vevent">
>>  <a class="url" href="http://www.web2con.com/">http://www.web2con.com/</a>
>>  <span class="summary">Web 2.0 Conference</span>:
>>  <span property="dtstart" content="2007-10-05">October 5</span>-
>>  <span property="dtend" content="2007-10-20">19</span>,
>>  at the <span class="location">Argent Hotel, San Francisco, CA</span>
>>  </div>
>>    </body>
>> </html>
>
> here are the the resulting triples using  :
> http://triplr.org/rdf/weborganics.co.uk/demo/hcal.xhtml
>
>> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
>> <rdf:RDF xmlns:c="http://www.w3.org/2002/12/cal/icaltzd#"
>> xmlns:h="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"
>> xmlns:rdf="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#"
>> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/vocab#"
>> xml:base="http://triplr.org/rdf/weborganics.co.uk/demo/hcal.xhtml">
>>  <c:Vcalendar rdf:about="http://weborganics.co.uk/demo/hcal.xhtml">
>>    <dtstart xml:lang="en">2007-10-05</dtstart>
>>    <c:component>
>>      <c:Vevent>
>>        <c:url rdf:resource="http://www.web2con.com/"/>
>>        <c:summary xml:lang="en">Web 2.0 Conference</c:summary>
>>        <c:location xml:lang="en">Argent Hotel, San Francisco,
>> CA</c:location>
>>        </c:Vevent>
>>    </c:component>
>>    <dtend xml:lang="en">2007-10-20</dtend>
>>    <c:prodid>-//connolly.w3.org//RDF Calendar $Date: 2007/06/30 19:05:32 $
>> (BETA)//EN</c:prodid>
>>    <c:version>2.0</c:version>
>>  </c:Vcalendar>
>> </rdf:RDF>
>>
>
> So really there is no need for the BBC to adopt all out RDFa, just mark-up
> the useful  bits in RDFa,  I think its interesting that Fabiens XSLT
> resolves prefix-less values to http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/vocab# , this is
> good I think because at least it tries to add triples to the graph., but it
> could be resolved further by changing  the XSLT style sheet at
> http://www.w3.org/2002/12/cal/glean-hcal.xsl, to look for @property and
> @content, when determining the values of dtend and dtstart. I can do this
> Quite happily. I don't think it would be difficult after that to persuade
> the Author of X2V Brian suda to update his style-sheets to look for
> @property and @content too. Every one is in a WIN WIN situation after that.

Great example code, I like to see always examples :-) and I've already
made a huge use of hCalendar, also with a Timeline from hCalendar, and
it's good... according to You. So I'm not a BBC man but IMHO except
for the Accessibility issue I can think a reason can be the
extensibility of RDFa... but there is an interesting post of BBC
people for it [2]... extensibility and linking... this is also the
reason I rewriting all in RDFa. An exaple on a classical problem, I
mantain an RSS feed (RDF way of course) and I like to add my event
into an RSS... with RDFa solution is simple. So the Microformats have
the great pro for ignition of people that linked datas and Semantics
are good. Quoting Bob DuCharme "RDFa is Microformats done right".

Brian Suda is a great person, but his X2V is not the only engine for
Microformats... we may ask to the microfotmats community. For more
uses Microformats works good, but not for all...imagine a car... is
good to go to office... so You can use a Ferrari or FIAT 500 (old
model, for this example - for non-italian people search a picture) the
function is the same for both but there is a big difference... and I
like a lot FIAT 500 :-)

>> RDFa has more power and expressivity, is the same difference between
>> Lego and normal-games. With Lego you can build and play anything, with
>> other games you can use it only for the purpose which are created..
>> not only if you have a Lego car and a Lego ship you can create a
>> spaceship!
>>
>
> Wonderful Quote! :-)

Thanks! :-)

>> So, IMHO, SEO and Web Marketing can take a lof of advantages (not
>> using Black or Gray Hat tactics) with Semantic Web and in particular
>> with RDFa, I'm prepairing for a conference for October on this
>> arguments and I'm finding a lot of positive things, but we must think
>> "out of the box"
>>
>>
>
> I do think "out of the Box" all the time. that part of MY problem ;-) .

No, this is not a problem, it's a quality ;-D

Best Wishes,

Simone

[1] http://www.topquadrant.com/w3c/RDFa/
[2] http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radiolabs/2008/06/microformats_and_rdfa_and_rdf.shtml

-- 
Simone Onofri
http://www.siatec.net/

Received on Sunday, 14 September 2008 22:39:44 UTC