Convene, take roll, review records and agenda

<DanC> Scribe: LeeF

<kendall> I'll help Lee

aww thanks, kendall

<DanC> minutes 25 Oct

<DanC> RESOLVED to accept

RESOLVED to accept http://www.w3.org/2005/10/25-dawg-minutes minutes 25 Oct as true record

<DanC> ACTION: AndyS to Update grammar inline with value testing decision [DONE] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/11/01-dawg-minutes.html#action01]

<DanC> 7 others cont

<scribe> ACTION: DanC to publish WSDL 1.1 sparql protocol note, contingent on thumbs-up from KC, EricP, Lee/Elias. [DONE] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/11/01-dawg-minutes.html#action02]

next meeting

<scribe> ACTION: LeeF to ask WSDL WG to review WSDL 1.1 SPARQL protocol stuff, once it is available. [DONE] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/11/01-dawg-minutes.html#action03]

<DanC> 8 Nov conflicts with ISWC. but none of us is going, evidently.

<scribe> ACTION: EricP to fix test schema to match manifest with negative tests [recorded in 09/27-dawg-minutes.html#action16]] [CONTINUED] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/11/01-dawg-minutes.html#action04]

<EliasT> earlier, please.

<scribe> ACTION: DanC to follow up re optional test based on op:dateTime triple [CONTINUED] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/11/01-dawg-minutes.html#action05]

<EliasT> 14:30Z works for me

<scribe> ACTION: EricP to respond to "Security Considerations" comment [CONTINUED] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/11/01-dawg-minutes.html#action06]

<patH> for the record, Im OK with either time.

<scribe> ACTION: ericP to respond to isURI poorly named [CONTINUED] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/11/01-dawg-minutes.html#action07]

<scribe> ACTION: KendallC to remove uses of "my" in URIs in protocol spec [CONTINUED] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/11/01-dawg-minutes.html#action08]

<scribe> ACTION: DaveB to add to test suite the temperature case from comment on truth tables in commentor's message [CONTINUED] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/11/01-dawg-minutes.html#action09]

<scribe> ACTION: ericP to update sop:isIRI to include the "isuri" synonym [CONTINUED] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/11/01-dawg-minutes.html#action11]

<DanC> PROPSED: to meet next 8 Nov 14:30Z...

<DanC> RESOLVED: to meet next 8 Nov 14:30Z, JanneS to scribe

. Scribe for Nov 8 at 14:30Z - Janne

<DanC> note pre-AC publication cut-off of 21 Nov

Note on querying lists

<kendall> boo hiss

<kendall> w3c should make it *easy* for WGs to publish these kinds of things, IMO

<DanC> sotd of WSDL 1.1 thingy http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-sprot11-20051024/

<kendall> have we tried to judge consensus on the technical approach?

<kendall> seems like we have it, more or less

AndyS: Would like to see something done about querying trees - put something in general DAWG space?

kendall: would like to see as a Note; no cycles to spare.

DanC: critical mass to work on on WG time

<DanC> tx for advice

protocol testing update

<DanC> ACTION: Jeen try to reproduces EliasT's protocol testing results [CONTINUES] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/11/01-dawg-minutes.html#action12]

<franconi> I can join the phone conf. only later :-(

<DanC> roger, franconi

SPARQL Protocol and WSDL

<DanC> ACTION: KC to review sparql-types for xs:any weirdness, w.r.t. WSDL 2.0 constraints [CONTINUES] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/11/01-dawg-minutes.html#action13]

<DanC> ACTION: DanC to notifty DAWG of WSDL response to our WSDL comments [PENDING] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/11/01-dawg-minutes.html#action14]

<DanC> ACTION: KendallC to Send review of SPARQL protocol spec from WS-Desc to DAWG list. [DONE] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/11/01-dawg-minutes.html#action15]

<kendall> I *think* there have been some proposals re: our pending issue, but I haven't read them yet.

<DanC> (I should mark the wsdlProtocol issue open, shouldn't I?_

<DanC> )

Security Considerations

<DanC> ACTION: KendallC to add a modified version of http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#security to protocol editor's draft, as well as a pointer to the section in rq23 itself [CONTINUES] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/11/01-dawg-minutes.html#action16]

issues#rdfSemantics

<franconi> can we have this item as the last point, so I can join?

<franconi> (unless it ialready the last :-)

<DanC> agenda order = 8, 7

Toward CR

DanC: When is the next time we should publish QL spec?

AndyS: non-LC publication before 21 Nov despite pending editorial issues

<kendall> +1

patH: delay decision on publish of QL pending outcome of semantics issue?

DanC: Because last publish was a LC publish, would like to do section-by-section change summary
... Will aim for publishing *something* before 21 Nov
... Charter puts forth closure method for querying graphs - might have to vote against parametrized entailment

patH: if we restrict to lower than OWL entailment, than it's equivalent to closure and could fall within charter

<DanC> (we're leaking into issues#rdfSemantics ... note, enrico, call in asap pls)

DanC: need OWL worker example in our test cases -- will it be "extra credit" or standardized?

<enricofranconi> that's me

<enricofranconi> I've just sent a reply to Pat's messages on the semantics to the list

<kendall> just trying to get all the procedural aspects sorted out in my head

DanC: WG members should look for publication decision around Nov 8 or Nov 15
... can probably do two spread out press releases during CR during the month of _______ (noun) ?

<DanC> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/weekly-agenda

DanC: looks for flag bearers for pending and open LC comments

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2005Sep/0013

<DanC> audit is in http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/weekly-agenda

<kendall> And if we add more protocol operations in the future, which seems at least *possible*, you end up with even *more* WSDL operations and bindings.

issues#rdfSemantics

DanC: Would like non-editor support in responding to LC comments

<EliasT> +1

<kendall> well, that leaking can be devilishly useful, modulo other problems

<kendall> for my $$, a cleaner solution would have been to add subqueries, a la iTQL and others

<DanC> (I gather the + 1 was re "we could adjourn and let pat and enrico talk)

<AndyS> Subqueries don't work if you can't construct the subquery without knowing the first result (e.g. one of Ron's example on collections)

<DanC> (time draws near)

<kendall> hmm

<AndyS> { ?x foaf:mbox <mailto:Xyz> . optional { ?x foaf:name ?name } }

<AndyS> Subqueries don't do transitivity needed for list tail.

<AndyS> The <_:abc> form would be a non-std way to do it. And only apply for abstract syntax mode not entailment (RDF, RDFS, OWL)

<AndyS> Needs also Result Set format tweak.

<DanC> ADJOURN.

<kendall> i'm not entirely clear how this interacts with entailment, OWL or otherwise.