- From: Dirk Colaert <Dirk.Colaert@quadrat.be>
- Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 17:33:52 +0200
- To: 'Howard Katz' <howardk@fatdog.com>
- Cc: public-rdf-dawg@w3.org
These are my initials. It is only depicting that this is my second use case I submitted. -----Original Message----- From: Howard Katz [mailto:howardk@fatdog.com] Sent: jeudi 8 avril 2004 17:25 To: Dirk Colaert; Eric Prud'hommeaux Cc: Rob Shearer; public-rdf-dawg@w3.org Subject: RE: use case dc-02 Right. That makes sense. Are you referencing an existing document here? I don't recognize the "dc-xx" numbering scheme. Howard > -----Original Message----- > From: public-rdf-dawg-request@w3.org > [mailto:public-rdf-dawg-request@w3.org]On Behalf Of Dirk Colaert > Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 8:06 AM > To: 'Howard Katz'; Dirk Colaert; Eric Prud'hommeaux > Cc: Rob Shearer; public-rdf-dawg@w3.org > Subject: use case dc-02 > > > > Use case dc-02: Query a query > > A server stores all queries committed. From time to time the security > administrator wants to know who has tried to query on data which > he/she had > no access to. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Howard Katz [mailto:howardk@fatdog.com] > Sent: jeudi 8 avril 2004 16:14 > To: Dirk Colaert; Eric Prud'hommeaux > Cc: Rob Shearer; public-rdf-dawg@w3.org > Subject: RE: Requirement: queries written as RDF > > > > >(2) If queries are represented in XML they can be treated as data > > > and you can run XQueries over a collection of XQueries. > > > > That's interesting. A Query expressed in RDF could be treated as RDF. It > > would be easy to do queries about queries. That's an argument for > > using RDF > > (or a subset, or a convertible format). > > > > All we have to do know is find a use case justifying this > > requirement... :-) > > It does sound wonderful, doesn't it? I too would like to know > what you would > want to query in a query. Examples anyone ... ? > > > > > Or do we have a solution without a problem? > > > > Dirk > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Howard Katz [mailto:howardk@fatdog.com] > > Sent: mercredi 7 avril 2004 7:08 > > To: Eric Prud'hommeaux > > Cc: Rob Shearer; public-rdf-dawg@w3.org > > Subject: RE: Requirement: queries written as RDF > > > > > > I got several responses back from members of the Query wg on the XQueryX > > question. I particularly liked this one. I don't know if it'll shed any > > light on our own issues, but it's delightfully clear and succinct. The > > author prefers to remain anonymous. > > > > In response to a question on why XQueryX: > > > > > (1) An XML-based syntax was considered easier for machines to > > > generate and exchange than a human-oriented syntax that would > > > require some sophisticated parsing. > > > (2) If queries are represented in XML they can be treated as data > > > and you can run XQueries over a collection of XQueries. > > > (3) Since XML is known to be an answer to all questions, it must be > > > an answer to the question "What would be a good format for expressing > > > queries over XML data"? > > > > In response to a question on the technical difficulties that > > arose once the > > requirement was formulated: > > > > > Once the requirement for an XML query syntax was adopted, > > > arguments immediately broke out over the level of detail at > > which a query > > > should be broken down into XML elements. The working group > > finally settled > > > on two separate approaches that represent extreme points on the > > spectrum: > > > (a) The whole query is wrapped in a <query> element, and otherwise > > unchanged. > > > This approach obviously does not take the XML syntax requirement very > > seriously. > > > (b) The query is parsed, and each and every node in the parse tree > > (including individual > > > operators, function calls, steps in path expressions, etc.) is > > represented > > by its own > > > element, thus making the query incredibly verbose. This format is > > obviously useless to humans. > > > > > At various times and places, people have attempted to define some > > intermediate point > > > between these two extremes. These attempts have always ended in > > rancor and > > controversy. > > > > Finally, in a follow-up clarification: > > > > > I believe that the editor of the XQueryX specification is currently > > pursuing both approaches > > > (a) minimal expansion and (b) maximal expansion. Both will be > defined as > > valid forms of > > > XQueryX. > > > > Just to close on a personal note, I've always felt that XML is > > the answer to > > all questions. I'm now coming to feel increasingly that RDF is > > even more so! > > > > Howard > > > > > > On Sun, Apr 04, 2004 at 09:23:14AM -0700, Howard Katz wrote: > > > > > > [snip ...] > > > > > > > > I certainly agree with the sentiments of the second, "human > > readable" > > > > > requirement. Interestingly enough, the third, "XML" requirement > > > > has been the > > > > > one that's caused the group the most difficulty to my > > > > knowledge, and at the > > > > > moment conformance with this requirement has been downgraded to > > > > optional. I > > > > > don't know what the major issues have been, but it might be > > > > interesting to > > > > > know, if only for the sake of curiosity. > > > > > > > > Can we go beyond the meta-lesson of "that may be hard. it's > been hard > > > > in XQuery" to some of the particular problems that > requirement caused > > > > the XQuery WG? Also, was this requirement born of some > compelling use > > > > cases, or a general notion that it's good practice to > express anything > > > > in XML? > > > > > > I wasn't trying to impart a particular lesson. My intention, > not knowing > > > what DAWG members know or don't know about it, was simply to > > > provide data on > > > the experience of the Query wg in the event that might prove > > useful to the > > > group. In response to your questions, I've asked several > > members of the wg > > > about their XQueryX experience. If they see fit to pass that on > > > to me, I'll > > > be happy to share it with the group. > > > > > > Howard > > > >
Received on Thursday, 8 April 2004 11:27:10 UTC