- From: Pierre-Antoine Champin <pierre-antoine@w3.org>
- Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2022 19:16:11 +0200
- To: Matthieu Bosquet <matthieu@cognithive.com>
- Cc: public-rdf-comments@w3.org
- Message-ID: <87aef963-ee35-1e28-9b33-dbdeb6e396fc@w3.org>
It took me quite some time, but the erratum is now officially recorded... https://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/RDF1.1_Errata#erratum_31 On 17/12/2021 20:09, Matthieu Bosquet wrote: > Richard, apologies for missing your message; it didn't make it to my > inbox for some reason. > > Just to clarify, if I understand correctly: > - this "RDF 1.1 Semantics - 8.1 RDF Entailment > <https://www.w3.org/TR/rdf11-mt/#rdf-entailment>" quote: > **"*if S contains:* xxx aaa yyy . *then S RDF entails, recognizing D: > *aaa rdf:type rdf:Property ."; > - your statement: > "...a graph containing only a reified version of a statement > should not imply anything that can be inferred from the asserted > version of the statement."; > - and this "RDF 1.1 Semantics - D.1 Reification > <https://www.w3.org/TR/rdf11-mt/#reification>" quote: > "A reification of a triple does not entail the triple, and is not > entailed by it."; > > together mean that the only statement that the reification: "ex:r > rdf:subject ex:s; rdf:predicate ex:p ; rdf:object ex:o ."; > does not entail the statement "ex:s ex:p ex:o ."; > but the statement "ex:s ex:p ex:o ." does indeed itself entail "ex:p a > rdf:Property .". > > Hence, "RDF Schema 1.1 - 5.3.3 rdf:predicate > <https://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-schema/#ch_predicate>" shall be ammended from: > --- > A triple of the form: > S rdf:predicate P > states that S is an instance of |rdf:Statement > <https://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-schema/#ch_statement>|, that P is an > instance of |rdf:Property > <https://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-schema/#ch_property>| and that the > predicate of S is P. > --- > to: > --- > A triple of the form: > S rdf:predicate P > states that S is an instance of |rdf:Statement > <https://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-schema/#ch_statement>| and that the > predicate of S is P. > --- > > PA, adding this to the RDF's errata crediting me sounds great, thank you! > > And thank you both for helping me clarify my understanding! > > Cheers, > Matthieu > > > On Fri, 17 Dec 2021 at 15:38, Pierre-Antoine Champin > <pierre-antoine@w3.org> wrote: > > > On 17/12/2021 14:02, Matthieu Bosquet wrote: >> The specific quote from "RDF Schema 1.1 - 5.3.3 rdf:predicate >> <https://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-schema/#ch_predicate>" I am referring >> to states the following: >> --- >> A triple of the form: >> >> |S rdf:predicate P| >> >> states that S is an instance of |rdf:Statement >> <https://www..w3.org/TR/rdf-schema/#ch_statement>|, that P is an >> instance of |rdf:Property >> <https://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-schema/#ch_property>| and that the >> predicate of S is P. >> --- >> > My bad, I missed that part. > > >> More specifically: "...P is an instance of |rdf:Property >> <https://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-schema/#ch_property>|". >> >> My understanding is that this section describes which statements >> can be inferred from one asserted statement of the form "S >> rdf:predicate P"; one of which would be "P a rdf:Property"; which >> I believe means that the range of rdf:predicate should be >> rdf:Property (which is not only contrary to the default >> serialisation of the RDF ontology >> <http://w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#>, but also to the >> following sentence that you quoted). > > Yes. As Richard also pointed out, the contradiction is in the RDFS > Recommendation itself... > > I'll add this in RDF's > https://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/RDF1.1_Errata, and credit you with > it, if you don't mind. > >> >> I also think that many foolish things can be said and it's a good >> thing that, if anything, entailment helps realising how foolish >> the things said are. > > Agreed, but entailment should not "shoot the messenger", and treat > as foolish any graph merely quoting a foolish statement. > > Imagine I say "Alice believes that the earth is flat". You should > not call me a flat earther for reporting this! > > pa > >>> On 17 Dec 2021, at 10:29, Pierre-Antoine Champin >>> <pierre-antoine@w3.org> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 17/12/2021 00:04, Matthieu Bosquet wrote: >>>> I'm reaching out because I think you might be able to help or >>>> point me in the right direction to fix what I think is a >>>> mistake in the default serialisation of the RDF ontology >>>> dereferenceable at http://w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns# >>>> <https://t.co/2fWsLy0dpC>. >>>> >>>> According to RDF Schema 1.1, I think the rdfs:range of >>>> rdf:predicate should be rdf:Property as per >>>> https://w3.org/TR/rdf-schema/#ch_predicate >>>> <https://t.co/hN2YnAwnhv>. >>> >>> The section you are pointing to states >>> >>> "rdf:predicate is an instance of |rdf:Property| >>> <https://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-schema/#ch_property>" >>> >>> meaning rdf:predicate is /itself/ an instance of rdf:Property. >>> This sentence is not about the values of rdf:predicate... >>> >>> The same section states, a little below: >>> >>> "The |rdfs:domain| <https://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-schema/#ch_domain> >>> of |rdf:predicate| is |rdf:Statement >>> <https://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-schema/#ch_statement>| and the >>> |rdfs:range| <https://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-schema/#ch_range> is >>> |rdfs:Resource| <https://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-schema/#ch_resource>." >>> >>> which is consistent with the RDF description of the RDF vocabulary. >>> >>> Now, of course, I understand why one would expect the range of >>> rdf:predicate to be rdf:Property. But I am not sure this would >>> be a good idea. It would, for example, mean that >>> >>> :someFool :said [ >>> a rdf:Statement ; >>> rdf:subject rdfs:Class ; >>> rdf:predicate rdfs:Class ; >>> rdf:object rdfs:Class ; >>> ]. >>> >>> would RDFS-entail >>> >>> rdfs:Class a rdf:Property. >>> >>> which does not seem desirable. >>> >>> best >>> >>>> >>>> The current range is rdfs:Resource in the default serialization >>>> at http://w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns# >>>> <https://t.co/2fWsLy0dpC>. >>>> >>>> I know it's non-normative, but it seems like something that >>>> could be nice to fix. >>>> >>>> Kind regards, >>>> Matthieu >
Received on Wednesday, 30 March 2022 17:16:17 UTC